New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

A meeting place for CHL instructors

Moderators: carlson1, Crossfire

Post Reply

Topic author
howdy
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:16 pm
Location: Katy

New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#1

Post by howdy »

Is It Really "Constitutional" Carry?
“Constitutional.” What words or phrases immediately come to mind when you hear that word? Foundation, solid, powerful, liberty… “shall not be infringed”?

“Constitutional carry” should be the same, right? The recognition that the United States Constitution provides a solid, powerful guarantee of our right to carry a firearm, and the individual states cannot infringe upon this foundational liberty? Most gun owners would be shocked to learn that the laws passed in the recent wave of states enacting “constitutional carry” bear little to no resemblance to these notions.

Instead, the laws that were passed are basically the creation or rewording of legal exceptions to criminal statutes. On top of that, these exceptions typically contain detailed, and often convoluted, legal restrictions as to who, how, and where firearms can be carried. Here are some examples:

In Tennessee, you cannot constitutional carry in a public park, but permit holders are free to do so.
In Missouri, license holders who carry in an establishment that sells liquor cannot be charged criminally for a first-time offense, while constitutional carriers can face a Class B misdemeanor.
In Texas, license holders who inadvertently take their guns to airport security are permitted to return the firearms to their parked car, while constitutional carriers can face immediate arrest.
The federal Gun-Free School Zones Act provides an explicit exception for permit holders, but not for constitutional carriers.
Do you recognize the common denominator here? In each of these circumstances, the constitutional carrier has fewer rights than the license holder.

Our analysis of this growing trend leads us to two main conclusions. First, there are countless tangible benefits to obtaining and maintaining a carry permit in your state. Second, these laws can be incredibly confusing and complicated. Just look at all of the nuances in Texas alone. (see nuances below)

For more information about constitutional carry, contact U.S. LawShield and ask to speak to your Independent Program Attorney.


Nuances:

Where Can You Carry with a Texas LTC?
There are places you can carry your firearm only if you have a valid Texas LTC; if you don’t have an LTC and are carrying under HB 1927, you won’t be allowed to carry in some areas. This is just one reason you still want your LTC, even with HB 1927 passing. Without your LTC, you’ll still be restricted from certain locations, including:

On school premises, such as locked in your car or on your person while you’re driving down a side street within 1,000 feet of the school. Without an LTC, you cannot have your firearm within 1,000 feet of a public, parochial, or private school. Of course, even with an LTC, you cannot carry inside the school without the school’s written regulation allowing it or with written authorization from the school.
On the Lower Colorado River Authority property in Central Texas.
In a restaurant, with a restaurant being defined by law as obtaining 50% or less of its revenue from alcoholic beverage sales. Restaurant signs do not have a red 51% on them, and if they include the word “unlicensed” in reference to who can’t carry there, they’re letting you know Texas LTC holders can still carry on the premises. LTC holders are licensed.

Will 30.06 and 30.07 Signs Prohibiting Carry Still Be Posted?
Yes, the 30.06 and 30.07 signs prohibiting LTC holders to carry in a business will still be posted and in effect. HB 1927 passing does nothing to change the legal nature of those signs. Things you should know about signs, your LTC, and HB 1927:

Penal Code Chapter 30.05 signs will be used by businesses choosing to prohibit unlicensed people from carrying firearms in their places of business. HB 1927 does not allow you to carry in businesses with a properly posted 30.05 notice.
Businesses will continue to post 30.06 and/or 30.07 prohibiting Texas LTC holders from carrying concealed (30.06) or openly (30.07) in their place of business.
The Texas Alcoholic Beverages Commission states businesses that qualify as bars—meaning they receive 51% or more of their income from sales of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises—must post a sign notifying customers of their 51% status. This is known as a Weapons Warning Sign but is sometimes referred to as a 51% sign. Neither your LTC nor HB 1927 allow you to carry a firearm in a bar.
Are There Other Benefits to Having Your Texas LTC?
One of the best reasons to have a valid Texas LTC, aside from the ability to carry in additional places within the State of Texas, is reciprocity. Reciprocity refers to the other states’ agreements to recognize and honor your Texas LTC. Not all states offer reciprocity, but those that do will let you carry your firearm while you’re in that state as long as you have a valid Texas LTC. As with carrying in any county or state, be sure you are familiar with the area’s specific laws and regulations before entering the area with your firearm. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse.

Having your Texas LTC is a good idea, even with the passing of HB 1927. Not only does it provide additional areas where you can carry as well as reciprocity with a lot of states, it also shows law enforcement you’ve taken some steps to further your firearms education. That’s always a good thing.
Texas LTC Instructor
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Life Patron Member TSRA Member
USMC 1972-1979
User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 5073
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#2

Post by ScottDLS »

howdy wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:58 pm ...
In a restaurant, with a restaurant being defined by law as obtaining 50% or less of its revenue from alcoholic beverage sales. Restaurant signs do not have a red 51% on them, and if they include the word “unlicensed” in reference to who can’t carry there, they’re letting you know Texas LTC holders can still carry on the premises. LTC holders are licensed.

...
Another reason why I refuse to pay for a prepaid legal service. They put out false or misleading information like the above. Then people go around, saying "well the lawyers say...". Well my lawyer (as well as my own ability to read) tells me they are wrong.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

Topic author
howdy
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1464
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:16 pm
Location: Katy

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#3

Post by howdy »

That is why I highlighted the restaurant passage. I had not heard that or seen that published anywhere. I was hoping to get some comments on it.
Texas LTC Instructor
NRA Basic Pistol Instructor
NRA Life Patron Member TSRA Member
USMC 1972-1979
User avatar

oohrah
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon May 27, 2013 5:54 pm
Location: McLennan County

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#4

Post by oohrah »

I don't find that confusing at all. Previously, restaurants that sold alcohol for on-premises consumption had to post the TABC BLUE sign, which said no "un-licensed" possession. It is my understanding that HB1927 eliminated the TABC BLUE sign. I welcome any further education.
USMC, Retired
Treating one variety of person as better or worse than others by accident of birth is morally indefensible.
User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 5073
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#5

Post by ScottDLS »

oohrah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:57 am I don't find that confusing at all. Previously, restaurants that sold alcohol for on-premises consumption had to post the TABC BLUE sign, which said no "un-licensed" possession. It is my understanding that HB1927 eliminated the TABC BLUE sign. I welcome any further education.
Without your LTC, you’ll still be restricted from certain locations, including:

...
In a restaurant, with a restaurant being defined by law as obtaining 50% or less of its revenue from alcoholic beverage sales. Restaurant signs do not have a red 51% on them, and if they include the word “unlicensed” in reference to who can’t carry there, they’re letting you know Texas LTC holders can still carry on the premises. LTC holders are licensed.
This is the part that is confusing, because it is WRONG.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

Tex1961
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1711
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:11 am

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#6

Post by Tex1961 »

oohrah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:57 am I don't find that confusing at all. Previously, restaurants that sold alcohol for on-premises consumption had to post the TABC BLUE sign, which said no "un-licensed" possession. It is my understanding that HB1927 eliminated the TABC BLUE sign. I welcome any further education.
Correct.. TABC Blue has been eliminated...

Tex1961
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 1711
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:11 am

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#7

Post by Tex1961 »

ScottDLS wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:05 pm
oohrah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:57 am I don't find that confusing at all. Previously, restaurants that sold alcohol for on-premises consumption had to post the TABC BLUE sign, which said no "un-licensed" possession. It is my understanding that HB1927 eliminated the TABC BLUE sign. I welcome any further education.
Without your LTC, you’ll still be restricted from certain locations, including:

...
In a restaurant, with a restaurant being defined by law as obtaining 50% or less of its revenue from alcoholic beverage sales. Restaurant signs do not have a red 51% on them, and if they include the word “unlicensed” in reference to who can’t carry there, they’re letting you know Texas LTC holders can still carry on the premises. LTC holders are licensed.
This is the part that is confusing, because it is WRONG.
:iagree:
Only Bars with 51% are illegal. The TABC Blue requirements have been removed.
User avatar

jmorris
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1540
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:41 pm
Location: La Vernia
Contact:

Re: New [Pre-paid legal service] Email

#8

Post by jmorris »

Tex1961 wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:38 pm
ScottDLS wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:05 pm
oohrah wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:57 am I don't find that confusing at all. Previously, restaurants that sold alcohol for on-premises consumption had to post the TABC BLUE sign, which said no "un-licensed" possession. It is my understanding that HB1927 eliminated the TABC BLUE sign. I welcome any further education.
Without your LTC, you’ll still be restricted from certain locations, including:

...
In a restaurant, with a restaurant being defined by law as obtaining 50% or less of its revenue from alcoholic beverage sales. Restaurant signs do not have a red 51% on them, and if they include the word “unlicensed” in reference to who can’t carry there, they’re letting you know Texas LTC holders can still carry on the premises. LTC holders are licensed.
This is the part that is confusing, because it is WRONG.
:iagree:
Only Bars with 51% are illegal. The TABC Blue requirements have been removed.
My opinion on what's wrong with the paragraph it is not what signage, but that TABC does not define anything as bar or restaurant. It's a 51% location or not. If so it requires signage. If it isn't it doesn't. It's conceivable that a location whose main purpose is serving food (a restaurant) could bust the 51% limit. I can think of one place in Corpus Cristi that probably qualifies. What the fuddle do they mean by "restaurant sign" anyway?
Jay E Morris,
Guardian Firearm Training, NRA Pistol, LTC < retired from all
NRA Lifetime, TSRA Lifetime
NRA Recruiter (link)
Post Reply

Return to “Instructors' Corner”