TexasCHLforum.com

I believe the 10 hour min. needs to be lower...

Having known Point Blank for 25 years, he is a dedicated professional that I have the utmost respect for. Email inbound!

I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

The few I've come in contact with at work either paid no attention at all in class or got ripped off. I think 10 hours is plenty, but some instructors don't seem to be making effective use of that time.

Ten hours is more than enough time to give the rudimentary requirements and the source for any additional information desired. The CHL course was never intended to produce constitutional and/or legal experts. Responsible and mature judgement ain't taught. You either got it or you don't.

Granted, not all instructors are good instructors. OTOH, there is no intellectual requirement; i.e., SAT test, etc, for the students either.

Maybe the CHL written test should be done at DPS offices like the DL written test. Get randomly selected questions from a big pool. We would either have to know the answers or fail. If they did that, I think lower minimums would be great. Good instructors can teach shorter classes and still have a high pass rate. Mediocre instructors might have to teach longer classes, or tutor their students who don't pass the first time.

If DPS published the first time pass rates for students by instructor, new applicants would have extra information to help them pick an instructor.

C-dub wrote:

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

The few I've come in contact with at work either paid no attention at all in class or got ripped off. I think 10 hours is plenty, but some instructors don't seem to be making effective use of that time.

That is all because they had a poor instructor and nothing else...10 hours is to long and most other States have shorter classes and some States stopped using there own instructors and started taking certificates from NRA clases and other training...Bottom line is students stop retaining information in a 10 hour class and i believe it can be lowered..

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

Oh yea...You said somthing about printing and the castle doctrine...The term "printing" and "castle doctorine" are not in the Texas penal code....We dont have castle doctrine in Texas...Yes we have a law that is the same as the "castle doctrine" but Texas does not call it the "castle doctrine" so dont use a term in your class that your students wont find in the penal code..Yes i know the test says "castle doctrine" but that just shows the person who made up the test has no clue...."printing" is street slang and i dont use street slang in my class...The penal code gives a definition of "concealed" but does not mention the term "printing" one time....If you knew the penal code you would know all this...No problem...I dont mind teaching other instructors........Just food for thought....

point blank CHL wrote:

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

Oh yea...You said somthing about printing and the castle doctrine...The term "printing" and "castle doctorine" are not in the Texas penal code....We dont have castle doctrine in Texas...Yes we have a law that is the same as the "castle doctrine" but Texas does not call it the "castle doctrine" so dont use a term in your class that your students wont find in the penal code..Yes i know the test says "castle doctrine" but that just shows the person who made up the test has no clue...."printing" is street slang and i dont use street slang in my class...The penal code gives a definition of "concealed" but does not mention the term "printing" one time....If you knew the penal code you would know all this...No problem...I dont mind teaching other instructors........Just food for thought....

A lot of laws are given a name when they're introduced in the legislature. You won't generally find those names in the actual law. Motorist Protection Act, Texas Castle Law, Ashley's Law are a few that I can think of. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about a law by the name it is/was commonly known as, as long as you're teaching the law correctly. A lot of people particularly confuse the Motorist Protection Act with the Castle Law.

Similarly, the term "printing" may not be in the penal code, but that's the common term for your gun showing. There's nothing wrong with talking about printing when talking about "failure to conceal".

Brian

I wonder if his students are the ones coming here with those questions because he won't answer them.

BrianSW99 wrote:

point blank CHL wrote:

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

Oh yea...You said somthing about printing and the castle doctrine...The term "printing" and "castle doctorine" are not in the Texas penal code....We dont have castle doctrine in Texas...Yes we have a law that is the same as the "castle doctrine" but Texas does not call it the "castle doctrine" so dont use a term in your class that your students wont find in the penal code..Yes i know the test says "castle doctrine" but that just shows the person who made up the test has no clue...."printing" is street slang and i dont use street slang in my class...The penal code gives a definition of "concealed" but does not mention the term "printing" one time....If you knew the penal code you would know all this...No problem...I dont mind teaching other instructors........Just food for thought....

A lot of laws are given a name when they're introduced in the legislature. You won't generally find those names in the actual law. Motorist Protection Act, Texas Castle Law, Ashley's Law are a few that I can think of. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about a law by the name it is/was commonly known as, as long as you're teaching the law correctly. A lot of people particularly confuse the Motorist Protection Act with the Castle Law.

Similarly, the term "printing" may not be in the penal code, but that's the common term for your gun showing. There's nothing wrong with talking about printing when talking about "failure to conceal".

Brian

Again...The tearm "castle doctorine" was never a name used by the legislature or any one who introduced the law..It was introduced as the "stand your ground" law..Anything else.....You have to know your stuff when dealing with me...."casltle doctrine" is street slang here and it was taken from Florida because they where the first to pass a law like this and they call it the "castle doctrine"

point blank CHL wrote:

BrianSW99 wrote:

point blank CHL wrote:

tbrown wrote:I have heard of and met a lot of new CHLers who

• don't know where is off limits
• don't understand the 30.06 law
• don't know churches are no longer off limits unless there's 30.06 notice
• don't know the Chapter 9 rules for deadly force
• don't even know the Chapter 9 rules for force
• don't know there's a difference between MPA and the castle doctrine
• are confused about "printing"
• are confused about CHL and alcohol or prescription drugs
• aren't familiar with their carry gun
• know little or nothing about nonviolent dispute resolution

Should I go on? It looks like 10 hours is not enough for a lot of instructors to teach the required classroom topics in a useful way.

Oh yea...You said somthing about printing and the castle doctrine...The term "printing" and "castle doctorine" are not in the Texas penal code....We dont have castle doctrine in Texas...Yes we have a law that is the same as the "castle doctrine" but Texas does not call it the "castle doctrine" so dont use a term in your class that your students wont find in the penal code..Yes i know the test says "castle doctrine" but that just shows the person who made up the test has no clue...."printing" is street slang and i dont use street slang in my class...The penal code gives a definition of "concealed" but does not mention the term "printing" one time....If you knew the penal code you would know all this...No problem...I dont mind teaching other instructors........Just food for thought....

A lot of laws are given a name when they're introduced in the legislature. You won't generally find those names in the actual law. Motorist Protection Act, Texas Castle Law, Ashley's Law are a few that I can think of. I don't think there's anything wrong with talking about a law by the name it is/was commonly known as, as long as you're teaching the law correctly. A lot of people particularly confuse the Motorist Protection Act with the Castle Law.

Similarly, the term "printing" may not be in the penal code, but that's the common term for your gun showing. There's nothing wrong with talking about printing when talking about "failure to conceal".

Brian

Again...The tearm "castle doctorine" was never a name used by the legislature or any one who introduced the law..It was introduced as the "stand your ground" law..Anything else.....You have to know your stuff when dealing with me...."casltle doctrine" is street slang here and it was taken from Florida because they where the first to pass a law like this and they call it the "castle doctrine"

You're right, it was officially introduced as the Stand Your Ground Law. Most people today know it as the Castle Doctrine, slang or not. My point still is, there's nothing wrong with using the common terms to talk about laws that are written in lawyer speak.

Everybody wants to be a constitutional scholar and a Supreme Court level lawyer after paying the cost of a Texas CHL? What's the big deal? You pay your money, take the class and get a license that allows you to carry a concealed weapon under certain conditions.

With some luck and mature judgement, you'll never have to draw and/or fire your weapon. If you do draw and fire your weapon, your legal education will begin at that point.

Back on point: A four hour class plus a little range time should fulfill/provide the basic information necessary to pass the Texas CHL test. If one doesn't know/understand the requirements for and the responsibilities appertaining thereunto of being a CH licensee after four hours, one shouldn't have a CH license.

Oldgringo wrote:OTOH, there is no intellectual requirement; i.e., SAT test, etc, for the students either.

Thank God. I don't believe there should be an SAT test for the God-given right to defend oneself.

tbrown wrote:Maybe the CHL written test should be done at DPS offices like the DL written test. Get randomly selected questions from a big pool. We would either have to know the answers or fail.

Sounds pretty elitist to me.

point blank CHL wrote:......I think a min. of 8 hours plus range would be good...

Eight hours classroom plus two hours on the range?