Best Choice for non-semiautos in case of TEOTWAWKI

[Crash]

I'm not too fond of semiauto rifles, so what would be the best action type for home protection in case the world goes to hell in a handbasket? I would need something for reasonably long distances (500-600 yds) and something that would be good out to about 300 yards. I know that there are rifles that would cover both of those distance requirements, but I'd rather have one for each. I'm guessing that a Henry in 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 Winchester would handle the long range stuff and another one in .223 would be OK for the shorter range requirements.

Recommendations?

Thanks for your input,

Crash

[wheelgun1958]

It's always prudent to use the same ammo as your opponents....ergo 223 and 308.

[Crash]

It's always prudent to use the same ammo as your opponents....ergo 223 and 308.

wheelgun1958,

Excellent advice--and the .308 is probably (in most places) cheaper and more readily available than the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Thanks for your help,

Crash

[Paladin]

My first thought "in case of TEOTWAWKI" without a semi-auto is to get a pump action shotgun. With slugs you can get a respectable range out of a shotgun.

But the shotgun won't get you the distances you are talking about. If you are really going for beyond 500 yards, I'd say 6.5CM has become America's caliber (including SOF), but 308 will do.

Special Operations Forces appear to be increasing their focus on the 6.5 CM as the best way to take advantage of advances in ammunition and weapons technology to improve intermediate range sniper lethality, reliability and performance — when suppressed — at distances from 50 to 1,500 meters.

Ruger Precision is worth looking at. SIG Cross is a bit lighter.

If you are looking for a non-semiauto fighting rifle, old school WW1/WW2 rifles are still around.

[Grayling813]

I'm not too fond of semiauto rifles, so what would be the best action type for home protection in case the world goes to hell in a handbasket? I would need something for reasonably long distances (500-600 yds) and something that would be good out to about 300 yards. I know that there are rifles that would cover both of those distance requirements, but I'd rather have one for each. I'm guessing that a Henry in 6.5 Creedmoor or .308 Winchester would handle the long range stuff and another one in .223 would be OK for the shorter range requirements.

Recommendations?

Thanks for your input,

Crash

Any quality bolt action that you can hit targets at the required distance. I'd still with the more common hunting calibers that there's tons of ammo and reloading supplies for, .308 and 30-06 comes to mind. Lever action acceptable if it works for you.
Stay with one caliber for short and long distances if you're not going to have a semi-auto for the short distances.

[PUCKER]

Maybe I'm a weirdo, but when I see "non-semiauto" I think of Full Auto...

[Rafe]

For a budget-conscious, knock-around option, this today-only special from Brownells might be worth looking at:

https://www.brownells.com/guns/rifles/b ... tic-stock/

At $450 with no FFL fees (on the seller's end) or shipping charge, it's hard to beat a basic Remmy 700. But, as Paladin noted, a friend of mine has a SIG Cross and it's pretty sweet, and I've been thinking about a Ruger Precision for longer than I care to admit.

Edit: The email ad said either .308 or 6.5 Creed, but the 6.5 is showing $449.99 while the .308 is at Brownells' regular $606.49. Just makin' a note of it.

[philip964]

So I read all the reviews and the .308 seems the best choice. However, the 6.5 Creed is so tempting.

[gregthehand]

I love lever actions. I won't say what I have on here, but it's a very good collection. I have a few that were custom built by gunsmiths who are well known for building the best lever guns. The idea of just about any off the shelf lever gun shooting out to 600 yards is very wishful thinking. Very.

The Long Ranger shoots a 1.5 MOA group in gun magazine reviews. They won't even say what kind of ammo, but by the brands they call out, they're probably shooting match ammo. Like most lever actions, real world accuracy is going to be 2.5 MOA plus. 2.0 MOA if you're lucky. That means at 600 yards you will shoot a 12" group, at best. That's if the rifle and sights are bang on and you're doing everything right. Basically, at that distance, you're shooting minute of barn door.

Good modern bolt action rifles should be able to shoot 1 MOA off the shelf. If they can't, its not even worth buying. Many rifles will flaunt a 1/2 MOA guarantee. But again, when you press them about it that is with match ammo. Basically, if you want to shoot that far, you'll want a bolt action. I'd even get one to shoot at targets out to the 300 yard range.

My suggestion, that you can take or leave is:

- Buy an older Marlin 336 in 30-30. You can get 30-30 ammo everywhere and I zero my 30-30 rifles with Federal soft points that come int he blue box.
I have seen them at gun stores and hardware stores. I've even seen them at a grocery store. The point being that you can get not only rounds that work in your gun, but rounds that your gun is zeroed for just about everywhere. Make sure it is an earlier model with a JM barrel and no cross bolt safety. Not only were these built better, but they are drastically less than a newer lever gun. They go for $700 on gunbroker every day. Mount a 1-6 scope on it, get a good sling, and a good bullet loop for it. Don't cheap out on any of those. Good leather bullet loops and sling. Get a Leupold, Trijicon, or maybe a Vortex. If you want it to really run send it to Ryan Flynn at AGW. This is a good choice for close to medium range encounters.

- Buy a pump shotgun in 12 gauge with a 3" chamber. A Remington 870 or a Mossberg would be fine. I like the older stuff here too. You don't have to go too old though. I'd make sure I have a 7 shot tube, an 18"-20" barrel, and a good sling. A side saddle would also be good. This would be your up close gun. You can also buy a 28" barrel for bird/game hunting. I like ghost ring sights on mine, but that's a personal preference and they don't work when you put on a longer barrel. My dedicated self defense shotguns have them though. As well as a light.

- Buy a decent to good bolt action rifle in .308. They are plentiful and so is .308 ammo. There are lots of good rifle makers out there. If you go with Remington or Winchester, I'd get an old one. If you have a good budget, buy the best rifle you can. I have mine custom built as I never find the combination of caliber and features I want off the shelf. Also, I can get a rifle built on a Remington 700 or Winchester Model 70 action for about $2000-$2500. That's about as much as nicer bolt action rifle and I can have it built to my exact specs. Mine all shoot 1/2 MOA. I prefer Schillen barrels. Don't cheap out on the scope. It should cost as much or more than the rifle. Leupolds can be found for cheap online if you buy used on eBay. If they're faulty, they have a lifetime warranty. So does Vortex. I really like Trijicon and Leupolds with illuminated reticles on my rifles to include my lever guns.

You can buy an old 30-30 for $650. An old pump shotgun for $500. A decent rifle for $1000. Plus optics and accessories. With those, you'll have long guns that would work in about 95% of any scenario you may find yourself in.

Buy once, cry once.

[The Annoyed Man]

I saw a YouTube video once of a guy ringing a 1 MOA steel plate at 1,000 yards with a Henry Long Ranger Express rifle in .223/5.56 NATO shooting match ammo. It feeds from a removable box magazine, and has a 1:9 twist 16.5" free-floated barrel with what looks like a medium contour. The barrel is also threaded for a suppressor.

There’s a lot to like in that rifle if you want a lever action rifle that is capable of considerable accuracy in an easily available reasonably priced chambering.

I agree with others here that 6.5 Creedmor is a better long range round than .308, but .308 is still a pretty good round out past 800 yards, and it is pretty commonly available. The retired MARSOC scout sniper who trained me told me he’d had a kill at 1,300 yards in Afghanistan with a bolt action .308, but that’s at the very outside edge of the envelope for that cartridge, and it takes a very special talent to be able to do that. Personally, I was good for 800 with pretty decent accuracy. But the truth is that, unless you’re deliberately trying to assassinate someone, you can just as easily walk away from a threat that is 800 yards out as shoot them….just shy of a half mile away. Be advised that an accurate 800+ yard .308 bolt action is going to be pricier than a run of the mill hunting rifle.

Until 6.5 Creedmoor becomes as prevalent in both civilian and military use as .308, you’d want to be able to reload for the 6.5 to keep your costs down and ammo supply up. It’s not a bad idea to reload for .308 too (my very best results, superior to Federal Gold Medal Match in my rifle, is with a handload), but until your ready to invest in that, good commercial .308 ammo is readily available.

[philip964]

Great thread!