Carrying a Colt Defender ??

[txbroker]

First post, surpised I didnt find this forum sooner.

Lots of great info but couldnt find what I was looking for so,

I have a Colt Defender in .45, was wondering how those who have this firearm carry? This is a SAO firearm so you either carry it hot or not. You eiter have one in the chamber with the hammer back and safety on or a dead stick until you cycle the chamber.

I love the size and knock down power of this firearm and also have a .40 Baby Eaglr I carry. the Defender is a lot smaller and easier to conceal.

Any information is appreciated.

Paul

[txinvestigator]

The Colt Defender is a 1911 style pistol. We have discussed the carry condition of this type of gun here, even recently.

It should be carried in condition 1; a round in the chamber, the hammer back, and the thumb safety on.

My 1911 is sitting on my hip right now in that condition.

To fire you must disengage the thumb safety, grip the pistol properly to disengage the grip safety, and press the trigger.

[gregthehand]

I carry all my firearms with a round in the chamber. This includes all my 1911s. If you are using your safety, and you have a properly working firearm there should be nothing to worry about. You don't want to get shot trying to rack your slide fast enough. Plus it adds another factor to the bad situation your already in that can go wrong. If your stressing you might try to operate the slide too fast and wind up jamming your firearm. You might forget all together to rack the slide. You might not pull the slide completely to the rear, or have your sweaty hand slip off completely. You can see how adding just this one variable to a shooting situation can prove fatal, or at least harmful. Trust me Colt makes a good 1911! Trust your equipment.

[txbroker]

Thanks for the info guys, i've never carrier a gun with a cocked back hammer and a round in teh chamber. my baby eagle I carry hot but with the hammer down and the safety on.

I know its a good gun and I got a great deal on it, sitting here with me now.

Thanks again for the info,.

[troglodyte]

I carry the Defender...condition 1...otherwise it is just a club.

[smyrna]

I see no problem with "cocked and locked" as that is how I carry my 1911's. Otherwise the time involved with making the weapon ready means you're out of the fight before you have a chance.

Food for thought...
* How many bird hunters do you know that walk the fields with shotguns that are NOT "cocked and locked"?
* How many deer hunters sit with a high powered rifle that is NOT "cocked and locked"?

My point is, carrying a concealed 1911 "cocked and locked" is no more dangerous than either of the above, yet somehow people quake at the sight of a 1911 with the hammer back. In fact, the grip safety provides an extra margin of safety that neither of the above situations have.

But of course, the best safety is between your ears

[rm9792]

Most will disagree but I carry my 1911's hot with hammer down. I have practiced and shot IDPA condition one and hammer down and found no difference either way in speed. With a spur hammer you have plenty of surface area to thumb back on the draw (finger off trigger till ready). I have large hands so my fingers get a good grip on the pistol so my thumb is free to pull the hammer as i am clearing the holster. Just another idea for you.

[txinvestigator]

Most will disagree but I carry my 1911's hot with hammer down. I have practiced and shot IDPA condition one and hammer down and found no difference either way in speed. With a spur hammer you have plenty of surface area to thumb back on the draw (finger off trigger till ready). I have large hands so my fingers get a good grip on the pistol so my thumb is free to pull the hammer as i am clearing the holster. Just another idea for you.

I am skeptical, but forgetting the speed issue, how do you get the hammer down in a safe manner?

Also, carry in that manner requires the safety to alreay be off when you "thumb back" on the draw. If the hands are sweaty, bloody or otherwise being able to thumb the hammer can be impossible. You did not ask for MY advice so I won't give it to you, but for others, carry in the condition you describe is dangerous.

[rm9792]

Thats one of the bones of contention here. I point in a safe direction, grasp the hammer firmly with my left thumb and forefinger, then squeeze the trigger with my right hand. I have been doing this with guns for over 30 years and had only one ever slip, but my hands were sweaty and it was the tiny hammer on a desert eagle. I was pointed to the ground in a safe direction though. I dont "cowboy" it with the same hand or anything so to me it is perfectly safe. Considering my ccw was cleaned/loaded 4 months ago and hasnt been unloaded since i only had to do this once in the last year. Why is this any different than lowering the hammer on a revolver or a DA pistol? I just dont agree that it is unsafe if done properly. I prefer hammer down simply because I feel safer, and in my case I am the same on the draw. I used to carry empty chamber but you guys convinced me it was unsafe in a bad situation.

If you have at least a few pounds of pressure on holding back the hammer and it does slip then it likely will be a light strike and not fire. But if it does you had it pointed in a safe manner, right?

[txinvestigator]

Thats one of the bones of contention here. I point in a safe direction, grasp the hammer firmly with my left thumb and forefinger, then squeeze the trigger with my right hand. I have been doing this with guns for over 30 years and had only one ever slip, but my hands were sweaty and it was the tiny hammer on a desert eagle. I was pointed to the ground in a safe direction though. I dont "cowboy" it with the same hand or anything so to me it is perfectly safe. Considering my ccw was cleaned/loaded 4 months ago and hasnt been unloaded since i only had to do this once in the last year. Why is this any different than lowering the hammer on a revolver or a DA pistol? I just dont agree that it is unsafe if done properly. I prefer hammer down simply because I feel safer, and in my case I am the same on the draw. I used to carry empty chamber but you guys convinced me it was unsafe in a bad situation.

One does NOT lower the hammer on a revolver with a loaded chamber. One does not lower the hammer on a DA pistol with the chamber loaded unless using a de-cocking device.

If you have at least a few pounds of pressure on holding back the hammer and it does slip then it likely will be a light strike and not fire. But if it does you had it pointed in a safe manner, right?

Just because you have only had one negligent discharge (isn't that more than enough) does not mean it is a safe manner to handle a pistol, nor is it a good idea for anyone else.

I am not interested in changing your mind, but new shooters and handlers need to learn it right. ;)

[rm9792]

I have had a car accident, better not drive anymore either. Who exactly says it is unsafe? I think 30 years of empirical evidence is plenty for me. With MIM being used so much today and poor QC I just dont trust safeties to not fail or sears to crack or slip. I think this "unsafe" business is urban legend or a theory that just wont die.
I always value your opinion on things TXI but I will have to friendly disagree on this without some proof it is unsafe. Kinda like the "dropping on the barrel" so many grabbers are worried about. Sure it can happen but is it really that common? More people have probably been shot from reholstering a Glock than dropping on the barrel.

[Mike1951]

If you are not going to be deterred from dropping the hammer, then try putting your finger UNDER the hammer.

[Skiprr]

Most will disagree but I carry my 1911's hot with hammer down. I have practiced and shot IDPA condition one and hammer down and found no difference either way in speed.

Well, I'll have to chime in here and ask where you've shot IDPA that you've been allowed to use a 1911-style pistol in Condition 2? Not trying to convince you one way or the other, either, but having gone through the formal IDPA Safety Officer certification, I can assure you that readying a 1911 in Condition 2--hammer down on a live round--is a no-no.

I mention it only because I don't want others thinking that IDPA allows that method of readiness for a 1911 or Browning-style autoloader.

[G.C.Montgomery]

First post, surpised I didnt find this forum sooner.

Lots of great info but couldnt find what I was looking for so,

I have a Colt Defender in .45, was wondering how those who have this firearm carry? This is a SAO firearm so you either carry it hot or not. You eiter have one in the chamber with the hammer back and safety on or a dead stick until you cycle the chamber.

I love the size and knock down power of this firearm and also have a .40 Baby Eaglr I carry. the Defender is a lot smaller and easier to conceal.

Any information is appreciated.

Paul

Welcome to the forum, Paul. As you mentioned the Colt Defender and all true 1911s are designed to be carried cocked-n-locked. Carrying the 1911 in any other condition is slow and/or dangerous. I learned this fact the hard way a long time ago. You'll find tons of info on this forum regarding carry options and you'll also find a number of 1911 shooters around here of varying skill levels. Comments:

1) The 1911 is a great platform but nothing is perfect.
2) Knockdown power is pretty much non-existent in any pistol caliber, the sooner you get over that fact the better.
3) Know your gun and learn to maintain it...Maintenance, more accurately a lack there of, kills.
4) If you are going to carry this gun, don't try to cut corners by using cheap carry rigs, cheap ammo and cheap magazines. (It's like running cheap gas, cheap oil and cheap tires on a Ferrari.)

Most will disagree but I carry my 1911's hot with hammer down. I have practiced and shot IDPA condition one and hammer down and found no difference either way in speed. With a spur hammer you have plenty of surface area to thumb back on the draw (finger off trigger till ready). I have large hands so my fingers get a good grip on the pistol so my thumb is free to pull the hammer as i am clearing the holster. Just another idea for you.

As anyone who has seen my hands can confirm, I too have large hands. I've also shot in more than a few IDPA and USPSA matches. Early in my shooting career, I had my first negligent discharge while trying to run a 1911 in condition 2. So let me go on record saying I fall into that group of folks who will disagree with the above statement. As others pointed out, one has to ask how you "safely" lower the hammer on a live round.

[rm9792]

You safely lower it by pointing in a safe direction, using two hands and paying attention to what you are doing. I never shot that way in IDPA because it is against the rules. I practice both ways and it is not slow. I didnt mean I competed that way earlier, was a mistake on my part. If it is slower it is by milliseconds and if you have that little time you are screwed anyway.
Again, why is it any more dangerous if it is performed with safety in mind? It is a lever with at most a 20# spring I can hold back with a pinkie. No cites or stats here, all I see is parroting and emotion. Compared to the number of AD's i have read about it is inconsequential. i do this maybe twice a year when i clean it. I dont compete with my ccw, I use another 1911 that I have no need to condition 2 with. Like I said earlier, everyone is convinced it is unsafe yet there no reasons given why. Many actions are unsafe with guns yet we take steps to make it safe as I have done. I would be more worried about a slamfire or booger hooker on the trigger than a slow, deliberate, careful lowering of the hammer.
No one is going to change their mind here but that doesnt mean either side is right or wrong. Just a difference of opinion.
Safety is relative and almost any action can be performed safely with proper training and precautions.