What's your favorite semi pocket pistol?

[mr.72]

This is not a "pocket pistols vs. full size guns" debate somehow crossed with a "revolver vs. auto" debate is it? Maybe we can also somehow sneak in a comparison between 9mm and .45ACP to get the gun board trifecta.

[tbranch]

It just fails to fire. Evidently, shooting standard-power ball ammo only, the firing pin reliably breaks after anywhere from a handful to a few dozen rounds.

Skiprr,

I've read about many issues with the P3AT on the KTOG forum. While there are issues, they seem to be minor given the huge number they sold. Many of the firing pin issues are caused by dry firing the weapon which is not recommended by Kel-Tec. I don't dry fire the LCP without snap caps for the same reason.

That said, I'm sure there are lemons in the batch and one should not carry a weapon that one doesn't have confidence in. I did sell my P3AT but only because I picked up an LCP that I liked better.

Tom

[John]

I have two from your original list. Tomcat and LCP. The Tomcat has never failed me and has been range tested, many times, whilst full of pocket lint and bone dry, but I recently picked up an LCP and it is easier to carry (not that the Tomcat was particularly hard to carry). I think it comes down to whether you want a pocket gun or not. I’m good with it for ease of carry.

So you know, the LCP only comes with one magazine. A small, cheap Nemesis pocket holster works fine with the LCP. For the Tomcat I used/use a Don Hume pocket holster that has held up well. For now, the Tomcat is moved to the closet safe and the LCP replaces it in my pocket. Main reasons are weight and it is .380 instead of .32.

I did try a Keltec several years ago and got rid of it after the first range trip. A pin backed out and locked up the trigger and it felt like a fircracker going off in my hand. I like the LCP better than the 3AT. For me it is easier to shoot.

A big plus for the Tomcat is the thumb safety, If that is an issue for you. A minus is that fact that i'm on my fourth set of grips (they crack) and you can't take the grips off without launching the safety spring accross the room. Here is an article on the Tomcat http://www.beretta-e.org/index.php?title=Tomcat

Neither are .45's, but still better than a rock or a stick.

Good luck in your quest.

-John

[CompVest]

My bugs of choice are KelTec 32, S&W M&P9c, and Kimber Ultraa Carry 45. I like them all and for different reasons and use them for different carry carry options.

[USMC-COL]

I have had two PM9s. I guess I didn't learn my lesson the first time. I know some extort its virtues and they certainly seem like the ideal pocket rockets, but that was not MY experience. I got rid of both of mine as quickly as I could and will never trust my life to a Kahr PM pistol again. I know some people have had good results with the larger Kahrs.

After the appropriate break-in period, I experienced significant problems when I put them through their paces - problems with feeding, extracting, mags, cuts from slide stop, finicky ammo selection, etc. I always alternate my carry pistols in IDPA matches and similar exercises to determine how they handle under more than normal situations. Kahr PMs look great, come in desired calibers, and become almost invissible in most pokets, but ... that is NOT the main criteria for my carry firearm. Discussions with other Kahr owners confirmed I was not alone and discussions about dismal factory service convinced me it is not the firearm for ME.

I've handled most makes of firearms and have carried, taught, and competed with many for over 40 years, so I have a fair base of experience.

YMMV, but I will never own a Kahr PM psitol again.

[Excaliber]

I have had two PM9s. I guess I didn't learn my lesson the first time. I know some extort its virtues and they certainly seem like the ideal pocket rockets, but that was not MY experience. I got rid of both of mine as quickly as I could and will never trust my life to a Kahr PM pistol again. I know some people have had good results with the larger Kahrs.

After the appropriate break-in period, I experienced significant problems when I put them through their paces - problems with feeding, extracting, mags, cuts from slide stop, finicky ammo selection, etc. I always alternate my carry pistols in IDPA matches and similar exercises to determine how they handle under more than normal situations. Kahr PMs look great, come in desired calibers, and become almost invissible in most pokets, but ... that is NOT the main criteria for my carry firearm. Discussions with other Kahr owners confirmed I was not alone and discussions about dismal factory service convinced me it is not the firearm for ME.

I've handled most makes of firearms and have carried, taught, and competed with many for over 40 years, so I have a fair base of experience.

YMMV, but I will never own a Kahr PM psitol again.

I've never owned a 9mm Kahr, but have had excellent results with a PM40 and PM45 after the initial breakin period. I've got about 1000 rounds through the .40 and about 600 through the .45.

I have no current issues with feeding, extraction, etc and they're not ammunition sensitive. I did have the same issue you described with sharp angles on the slide stop, which I rectified with a little judicious stone work.

I found that the full length magazines wouldn't feed the first round reliably unless they were either downloaded by one round, or a few spring coils were removed. Either fix works, but obviously shouldn't be necessary.

Because of the guns' small size and my big hands, I had to modify my grip slightly to make sure my weak hand didn't contact the slide stop lever and accidentally lock the slide back during a firing string.

I may have been just lucky to get a pair of good pistols, but I haven't had any issues I couldn't readily fix and these two particular weapons work just fine for me.

[Greybeard]

Hmmmmm. Sorry to hear of the probs with PM-9.

I've had one for I-forgot-how-many years now with no problems after a few failures to close completely during the stated break-in period. Although I did not buy if for such, many students have wound up test firing my PM-9 and/or using for the CHL qyalification: no major problems there either ...

To me, "pocket pistol" depends upon the size of the pockets. PM-9 is OK in some of my pants/shorts, but not practical in any of my normal jeans ...

[flintknapper]

Hmmmmm. Sorry to hear of the probs with PM-9.

I've had one for I-forgot-how-many years now with no problems after a few failures to close completely during the stated break-in period. Although I did not buy if for such, many students have wound up test firing my PM-9 and/or using for the CHL qyalification: no major problems there either ...

To me, "pocket pistol" depends upon the size of the pockets. PM-9 is OK in some of my pants/shorts, but not practical in any of my normal jeans ...

I agree, the Kahr fits nicely in the pocket of a pair of cargo shorts, but it is not an especially small weapon.

Smaller (overall) than the Ultra Carry to the left of it…but not by much.


I also agree with others here concerning the reliability of the little Kahr. Both that I have shot, were 100%...and they happily digested everything I tried in them.

[mr.72]

Flint, PM9 is substantially smaller than a CW9. The CW9 in your pic (or is that a P9?) is indeed not much smaller than some other compact pistols except that it is notably thinner than most.

[sar]

My seecamp 32 has been flawless with federal and hornady ammo. I have a 380 seecamp on order. Seecamp's product and product support are peerless and you can ask questions of Seecamp and have him directly answer you on his forum. As others have said, these aren't the most fun guns to shoot although the 32 I have is surprisingly accurate. I unofficially re-did my CHL test on my own using the little 32 and got in the 220's (yeah, I know, nothing to brag about, but the 45 feet with the tiny little gun and no sights is REALLY hard) Anyway, it's obviously designed for short-10 feet or so- personal defense.

[Excaliber]

Flint, PM9 is substantially smaller than a CW9. The CW9 in your pic (or is that a P9?) is indeed not much smaller than some other compact pistols except that it is notably thinner than most.

Mr. 72 is correct. The gun in Flint's picture appears to be a CW9, which is only slightly smaller than the Ultra Carry. The PM9 is about 3/4 inch shorter in height, a 1 1/2 shorter in length, and about 9 ounces lighter than the Ultra Carry.

Here are the dimensions and weights on the Kimber Ultra Carry, the Kahr CW9, and the Kahr PM9 taken from the spec sheets on the manufacturers' web sites:

Ultra Carry CW9 PM9

Height 4.75" 4.5" 4.0"
Length 6.8" 5.9" 5.3"
Weight 25 oz 17.7 oz 15.9 oz

[flintknapper]

Flint, PM9 is substantially smaller than a CW9. The CW9 in your pic (or is that a P9?) is indeed not much smaller than some other compact pistols except that it is notably thinner than most.

Mr. 72 is correct. The gun in Flint's picture appears to be a CW9, which is only slightly smaller than the Ultra Carry. The PM9 is about 3/4 inch shorter in height, a 1 1/2 shorter in length, and about 9 ounces lighter than the Ultra Carry.

Here are the dimensions and weights on the Kimber Ultra Carry, the Kahr CW9, and the Kahr PM9 taken from the spec sheets on the manufacturers' web sites:

Ultra Carry CW9 PM9

Height 4.75" 4.5" 4.0"
Length 6.8" 5.9" 5.3"
Weight 25 oz 17.7 oz 15.9 oz

Thanks for the info, looks like I need to "catch up" on the newest models. The one pictured is a P9.

[mr.72]

Yeah the CW9 is basically a less-fancified P9. Same dims as a P9.

They had a P9 "Covert" that was a P9 with the grip chopped to PM9 length.

Once they came out with the PM9, they quit making the P9 Covert. The PM9 has the shorter grip and a shorter barrel & slide assy as well.

PM9 is just about as big as you can get and still be pocketable IMHO. CW9/P9 are just too big for a pocket and would be much better suited to IWB IMHO. I think your typical double-stack 9mm are too fat for IWB and would be better for OWB.

IMHO!!!

[Excaliber]

PM9 is just about as big as you can get and still be pocketable IMHO. CW9/P9 are just too big for a pocket and would be much better suited to IWB IMHO. I think your typical double-stack 9mm are too fat for IWB and would be better for OWB.

I agree on the PM9. The PM40 is just about exactly the same size as the PM9 (.05 inch longer and same height) in the larger caliber, but pockets just as well as its 9mm cousin. The PM45 is just enough bigger that it takes it out of the pocket category.

I also agree that double stack pistols are generally better suited for OWB carry, although with judicious holster and wardrobe selection they can work IWB. This is generally more practical / comfortable for folks who tend more toward the slender side.

[dawgfishboy]

I also agree that double stack pistols are generally better suited for OWB carry, although with judicious holster and wardrobe selection they can work IWB.

That is exactly why I keep going back to the EMP for IWB...But dang it's expensive.