Blazer Ammo and Pasadena Shooting Center

[yahoshua]

I was browsing through the posts here and founf this topic.

Since I work here at the Pasadena Gun Center I may as well explain how this ban on Blazer Aluminum came about:

When CCI began producing Blazer Aluminum ammunition there were several problems with the ammunition (aside from the fact that aluminum cannot withstand the chamber pressures without severe deformation) and several guns blew up when customers were shooting blazer ammunition. To date, more than 20 customer guns have blown up while on our firing range using Blazer aluminum cased ammunition. The 3 guns (and/or parts of) pictured in that photograph are a Rossi .38 Special revolver, a S&W 9mm auto, and a Llama .45 auto. I have also personally witnessed a Kimber 1911 barrel be destroyed by Blazer Aluminum ammunition back in June 2008 or so.

As to how the Blazer ban came about was about 5 years after Blazer had been produced (Blazer came onto the market in 1980 so this incident was in '85-'86). A customer came into the shop with blazer amunition, he was warned about the dangers but replied with the usual retorts of:

1. You just want me to buy your ammo
2. You just don't like sorting the aluminum casings from the brass!
3. I think you're just lying to me
4. I've shot this stuff thousands of times and never had a problem
5. If this stuff was unsafe it wouldn't be sold anymore, somebody would've sued by now

The customer didn't want to listen so he took his ammo onto the range and the ammunition caused his barrel to be bulged in his semi-auto to the point that it was unrepairable. We told him that he had been duly warned but accused us of "letting him use dangerous ammo" and then threatened to sue the shop.

So the boss calls the insurance company to inform them of a possible lawsuit and over the course of 2 weeks of explaining the problem to multiple agents the insurance company then told us that if we continued to allow this amunition onto our range that the insurance premiums would be quadrupled. Thankfully no lawsuit was ever filed but the ammo is now banned from our range. However, this doesn't mean that customers don't ignore our warnings and proceed to use the aluminum ammo anyway, we still sort out aluminum casings, brass casings, and steel casings, and copper casings from the whole scrap piles we clean up. But it does somewhat insulate our shop from lawsuits.


And to retort to the above listed objections:

1. Plenty of people buy our ammo and we (until last August) sell reloaded and/or factory steel cased and brass cased ammunition to lots of customers. (The bullet factory we bought reloads from burned down last August and have yet found a replacement supplier).

2. We still have to sort out the copper, Brass, Aluminum, and steel cased ammo from the piles. It makes no difference what ammo you bring into our range sans blazer aluminum.

3. I am not a liar and will never lie to you, instead I will be as brutally honest as I can be. If I have to tell you to step off, I have no qualms about doing so.

4. I've heard this story tons of times over, some people never have problems, some people destroy their guns before they get through the first box of ammo. The insurance agents don't care what our story will be if we allow the ammo onto the range.

5. CCI has been sued over their ammunition, however NONE have ever made it to court. This is because Blazer settled their cases before they got to court. I don't even know if I can find settlement records doubtful)


And that's the story....

[flb_78]

It's dangerous stuff and you should not shoot it, so if you have any 9mm luger, .357mag, or .38spl that you have purchased, you should just give it to me and I'll "dispose" of it properly!!!

My offer still stands if anyone wants to get rid of their DANGEROUS Blazer ammo. Thousands of rounds and not even one misfire.....yet....

[Mike1951]

Yep. I'll take it too.

I don't shoot aluminum Blazer much any more, but I always buy it whenever I think I might not get to retrieve my brass.

Also thousands of rounds fired with no problems in most centerfire handgun calibers.

Whenever a range prevents the use of aluminum Blazer, I always think one of the following:

1. You just want me to buy your ammo
2. You just don't like sorting the aluminum casings from the brass!
3. I think you're just lying to me
4. I've shot this stuff thousands of times and never had a problem
5. If this stuff was unsafe it wouldn't be sold anymore, somebody would've sued by now

[rm9792]

I was browsing through the posts here and founf this topic.

Since I work here at the Pasadena Gun Center I may as well explain how this ban on Blazer Aluminum came about:

When CCI began producing Blazer Aluminum ammunition there were several problems with the ammunition (aside from the fact that aluminum cannot withstand the chamber pressures without severe deformation) and several guns blew up when customers were shooting blazer ammunition. To date, more than 20 customer guns have blown up while on our firing range using Blazer aluminum cased ammunition. The 3 guns (and/or parts of) pictured in that photograph are a Rossi .38 Special revolver, a S&W 9mm auto, and a Llama .45 auto. I have also personally witnessed a Kimber 1911 barrel be destroyed by Blazer Aluminum ammunition back in June 2008 or so.



And that's the story....

I am calling Bull on this! I would maybe believe the customers were shooting junk, overpowered reloads but not factory ammo. I dont care what the case is, it is not going to cause this much damage, especially in one shop. 20???????

[CompVest]

One does wonder. I have never seen or heard of any of these problems with Blazer. I don't shoot it, my husband reloads for me. However, I have seen thousands of rounds of Blazer shot at IDPA matches and practices over the years and I hate to see an ammo company get potentially bad press. Not saying that the above stories aren't true but I haven't seen any catastrophic failures.

[G.C.Montgomery]

Guys, it's worth saying that Pasadena Shooting Center has every right to ban certain kinds of ammo. That's their choice. We all have the option of shooting at other ranges too. Now here's what I have to say about the Blazer controversy.

I too have been to many ranges that have framed examples of damaged firearms all purported to have been destroyed by Blazer ammo. But I have also worked at several ranges over the years and I will tell you that I have seen far more firearms destroyed by poor maintenance, squib loads or just plain ignorance. As an example, I once had a local deputy constable complain that his brand new Glock pistol was defective because it wasn't cycling and the bullets were going through the paper side-ways...Lesson: .40cal pistols work MUCH better when you aren't tossing 9mm ammo down the barrel! Another deputy came to me once complaining that part of her gun had flown down range...Lesson: Don't run two-piece guide-rods in your 1911 if you aren't going to keep it tight! But, that's the little stuff. Not too long ago, I watched as some bonehead touch off a .454Casull round in a Taurus Judge and then stared in amazement as his cylinder split in half, departed his lane and proceeded to rip through the plexiglass partitions of the four stations to his right. All of these issues were operator headspace malfunctions yet, I also watched as some local range commando opined the cause MUST have been the ammo.

I am not saying Blazer hasn't blown up someone's gun. The reality is, every brand of ammunition has probably been a contributing factor, if not the primary factor, in the demise of a gun. It's a little known fact that one of the ongoing costs for ammunition manufactures is buying guns. Not for testing and not for fun but, to settle complaints and/or lawsuits resulting from guns going "BOOM!" when they should have gone "BANG!" I would hazard a guess that very few of those incidents can be attributed to the ammunition alone given an objective review of the evidence. But the lay person and the average Joe who shoots less than 1000 rounds a year only knows that they put Brand X ammunition in a gun that seemingly worked just fine and now the gun is in pieces. So, they reasonably theorize the problem must have been the ammo. These theories are often validated by range staff who may or may not have any more experience or knowledge than their customers. That's all I'm going to say on it because otherwise I'll start ranting about range staff telling customers their barrels are bent when the slide is locked back on a pistol.

[yahoshua]

I am calling Bull on this! I would maybe believe the customers were shooting junk, overpowered reloads but not factory ammo. I dont care what the case is, it is not going to cause this much damage, especially in one shop. 20???????

I've never heard of anyone, anywhere, anytime (if ever) whom sold reloaded aluminum cased ammunition that destroyed customers' guns. Until then the fact (from my standpoint and experience) remains that it was Blazer aluminum cased amunition that caused these catastrophic failures.

Perhaps all the firearms involved had headspace problems as C.G. Montgomery suggested. Although how that would've happened to occur in our shooting range over 20 times goes against all logical odds; with Blazer ammunition being the highest common denominator but not the actual cause of all these incidents is simply mind boggling.


You don't have to believe what I say, you're entitled to your opinion. But I'd prefer if you refrained from accusing me a liar.

[CompVest]

+1 G.C.Montgomery!

[rgoldy]

Astounding! That out of all the Blazer aluminum cased ammunition that has been fired by myself and numerous
others in my presence without misfires or damaged weapons, that I can recall, that one range in Pasadena
Texas has had 20 incidents of weapons damaged.
The statistical unlikelihood of that alone, makes the defense of the EMPLOYEE of that range suspect.
I have in fact seen far more misfires or other incidents from reloaded or hand loads than from Blazer.
I agree that the range is a business and as such may prohibit Blazer ammunition for whatever reason or for no reason.
Additionally, they are not required to explain that decision to customers or especially to non-customers.
I would seem dangerously naive for the employee to accept at face value what are apparently statements from his
supervisors on this subject with no doubts. That is unless he is saying that he himself witnessed these 20
incidents?

[KaiserB]

The first rule of statistics says: Correlation does not equal causation...

[Paladin]

Thanks for you input yahoshua!

I've seen the "Blazer display" at Pasadena Gun Center many times and told folks about it. Marksman range in S. Houston has the same policy to prohibit Blazer.

When I talk about the display I usually hear the denials... "I don't believe you, Show me a picture of the display!" or "what guns?" or whatever.

I have shot Blazer before, and found it to be inconsistently loaded... Blazer has much more powder variation from one round to the next than I am accustomed to.

Honestly I appreciate the warning that the display in Pasadena provides. To each his own, but personally I'll pass on Blazer ammo.