Inheritance

[troglodyte]

This is really one of those friend of a friend type deals. They know I try to keep up with "gun stuff" but I'm kinda stuck on this one.

A friend of mine has a daughter whose father died about 20 years ago. I don't know all the details but now that she is turning 21 she is inheriting some firearms that have been in the custody of an uncle (or something like that). They told me there was a shotgun (870 or 1100), a .270, and a Vietnam AR, supposedly from the war, and a sawed-off shotgun.

I'm concerned on a couple of items, specifically the "war" AR and the sawed-off shotgun. The details are sketchy and I haven't been able to talk with them for more details. They are not real cordial with the uncle so details may be hard to come by.

What if the AR is full auto (or select-fire)? Could it have been brought back? Did they issue semis? I'm hoping they just don't know enough about it and they just associated it with a Vietnam-type weapon. But what if it is? What do you do with a class 3 weapon if it is "illegal", whatever that may be? Can you sell it? I guess that depends on if it was brought into the country, or obtained, legally. If it is class 3 and you don't have a class 3 license, then what? Understandably there are lots of variables but is there any basic statutes or precedence that covers this type of inheritance?

Same type of legalities with the SO shutgun. If it is less than legal length, what do you do with it? I know, you can hide it and keep your mouth shut and hope the authorities never find it.

Just trying to figure out some options for them in the event they drive down and find out something is less than legal.

[Liberty]

What if the AR is full auto (or select-fire)? Could it have been brought back? Did they issue semis? I'm hoping they just don't know enough about it and they just associated it with a Vietnam-type weapon. But what if it is? What do you do with a class 3 weapon if it is "illegal", whatever that may be?.

There were some folks that managed to bring back weapons from Viet Nam
They didn't issue semi-automatics only versions.

I would hide it and pursue getting a stamp for the M16 if possible. I wouldn't bother with the shotgun. but that's me
your millage may vary.

[gregthehand]

If the shotgun is an 870, mossberg, etc she may be able to just buy a longer barrel for it. If I got it the first thing I would do (is the barrel was indeed illegal) would just be to cut the barrel in half and throw it in the trash. Then it's just a shotty that needs a new barrel. On the AR it may be something like the guy bought an AR because he liked his M-16 so much in the military. If it is indeed a full auto AR without and paper I would pull the guts out and throw them in the trash. Then I would just buy semi parts and install them. If it is a full auto that has never been registered then it won't be on anybodies list. And even me as someone who worked in LE I have no idea how to check and see if a weapon has ever been full auto by the serial number. I imagine if she does she would never get into trouble.


I am no expert though and don't know the strict letter of the law. By the way with all these weapons coming in... is she umm cute? I am only 26!

[Emmett]

As far as the "AR" goes if it was brought home from Vietnam it is an M16 and the property of the US Government. They did not give them away...

Good Luck,
Emmett

[AWB09]

Be very careful if there's no tax stamp. The last amnesty was before I was born.

[CKelton]

I am no expert though and don't know the strict letter of the law. By the way with all these weapons coming in... is she umm cute? I am only 26!

You'd go for the girl just cuz she inherited guns?



That could work.

[ddurkof]

Both would be illegal to possess, if not registered per the National Firearms Act of 1934.

The time frame involved may be a problem 20 years is a long time not to probate a will involving any NFA weapon.

The shotgun barrel could be removed and destroyed as mention above.

IF it is a m-16 there will be a small hole in the above the fire control selector. If there is a hole there then the receiver is a M-16 or a converted AR-15 receiver. Either of which have to be on a tax form to be legal. An AR-15 could be registered on a Form-1, which is a tax paid to manufacture a NFA weapon. The M-16 would normally be registered on a Form 4 (tax paid) or a Form 3 (if the owner had been a class 3 dealer no tax paid.)

Simply removing the internal part of a receiver that has the "hole" will not make it legal. ATFE's position is that once a machine gun always a machine gun. Unlike the short barrel shotgun, which can be made legal by placing a legal length barrel on it.

That being said there is the possibility that the weapons were registered under the National Firearms Act by the deceased. If they are registered then they can be transferred tax free by filing a Form 5 to the heir.

If the paperwork can not be found, then I would contact an attorney that specializes in NFA weapons to see what to do next. They MAY be able to determine if the weapons are in the registry. If they were registered the shotgun would not have than much value, $500.00 max depending on the condition of the weapon. The Converted AR or M-16 is another thing.

A converted AR that is in the registry is worth 8 to 10 thousand. A M-16, if an original Colt, can be worth up to 20 to 25 thousand dollars.

If the conversion was with a "Drop in Auto Sear" (DIAS) or a "Lightning Link" (LL) it still may be registered. There will NOT be any hole above the fire control selector, then look for a serial number on the device. That is the registered part. If there is no SN then they are not legal. These were sold in the early 1980 in Shot Gun News for about 20 dollars. If registered the DIAS can be worth up to 10K, the LL about 7K.

The DIAS will have M-16 internals and a M-16 bolt carrier. The LL will have semi, or AR-15, internal parts and a semi bolt carrier. You can google "Drop in Auto Sear" and / or "Lightening Link" for pictures. BATFE has stated that an AR with M-16 internal parts WITHOUT the autosear is still considered a machine gun.

Due to the value of a transferable converted AR-15 or a M-16, it is worth the investment of having an attorney that SPECIALIZES in NFA weapons consulted. Until it is determined one way or another I would keep my mouth shut. Possession of an unregistered NFA weapon can lead to a lengthy jail term and/or fine.

If the weapons are turned over to the police they will be either destroyed or registered on a Form 10, never to be transferred again.

The BEST thing to do is to have the NFA attorney consulted. DO NOT be the nice guy to "check it out," unless you have a strong desire to spend a great deal of money to stay out of jail.

Good luck.

[troglodyte]

Thanks for the info.

I didn't make myself as clear as I thought. The 870/110 is a different shotgun than the sawed-off one. But I think you answered the question concerning it.

I guess I am a little concerned that they go pick these guns up and IF it is the real deal unbeknownst to them I don't want them getting in trouble out of ignorance. OTOH I don't want to them to hire a lawyer for your run of the mill semi-auto. I can just see them driving home, getting pulled over and the officer finds cause to search the car (OK, I'm stretching things but stranger things have happened) to find they are transporting a full auto machine gun or a gun belonging to Uncle Sam. While it all may be worked out in the long run as an innocent mistake I'd like to at least give them some information so they can be better informed.

I appreciate y'all's help. I'll ask about paperwork on the gun(s) and pass on the help.

ETA: And I admit I don't know the whole story on this. It could be that this was part of a trust or some other will/inheritance thing I know nothing about.

[ddurkof]

There are a lot of M-16s marked "Property of US Government" that are legal. If it is a M-16 and it was originally transferred to the uncle, then she would have to pay the $200.00 tax, and all the paperwork that goes with it, unless the uncle died and willed to her, again it would have to be transferred on a Form 5. BATFE likes to collect the tax money, and they will only give you one transfer tax free, and you have to die to get it. Most likely it is a run of the mill AR-15 that her father had.

[HankB]

Whether or not the "sawed off" shotgun has 18" or longer barrels and a minimum 26" overall length has a lot to do with whether or not it's something that requires a tax stamp.

As for the AR . . . if it turns out that it really is an unregistered full auto . . . the upper, stock, and pistol grip still have some legitimate value. An original USGI Vietnam-era upper is worth at least several hundred dollars.

[Pinkycatcher]

Whether or not the "sawed off" shotgun has 18" or longer barrels and a minimum 26" overall length has a lot to do with whether or not it's something that requires a tax stamp.

As for the AR . . . if it turns out that it really is an unregistered full auto . . . the upper, stock, and pistol grip still have some legitimate value. An original USGI Vietnam-era upper is worth at least several hundred dollars.

I would strip the AR, "Lose" the lower and fire control group. Add a new lower w/ fire control group....That's just me

[Pete]

Maybe everything is legal, they just described the wepaons improperly.

The uncle did have them for 20 yrs and he is honest enough to give them to her when she turned 21.

Whole thing could be above board.

If not, I do not want to know.

Good luck to her.

[Rockrz]

The BEST thing to do is to have the NFA attorney consulted. DO NOT be the nice guy to "check it out," unless you have a strong desire to spend a great deal of money to stay out of jail.

Another best thing to do is simply do not receive these firearms into your friends posession, your posession, or the daughter's posession until you are so sure that it's legal that you are willing to bet a potentially long prision term that they are in fact legal.

[Purplehood]

You could always tell them to bury them both and hope for a more gun-friendly administration to take charge that issues free shovels and backhoes.

-Sorry, I had to do that.