Hornady Critcal Defense Ammo

[casingpoint]

http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=786" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hornady is promoting the latest stab at the perfect bullet with a claim every Critical Defense bullet will expand on target penetration due to a special polymer insert in the bullet tip which prevents clogging of the hollow point cavity by clothing and later aids in symetrical expansion.

The company admits to some sacrifice of penetration to achieve that 100 per cent expansion rate, as well as lesser performance by FBI testing protocol in some materials like windshields and steel.

The latent Holy Grail here seems to be energy dump as it relates to hydrostatic tissue shock. Certainly not a bad thing, and probably the single most important causative factor behind the fabled "lightning bolt effect" of the 357 MAG.

The energy dump theory has been downgraded in some circles as a major factor in incapacitation. But incapacitation/stop rates in police shootings increased dramatically wherever the Super Vel hollowpoint ammo replace ball rounds. What's your take on this?

I was unaware that clogging is a significant problem with modern hollow points like the Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST rounds. Again, experience and comments on this very important issue?

[flb_78]

Our very own Stephan Camp has tried it out and says it's an excellent self defense round.

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 91&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[magicglock]

I have been looking in DFW and so far have not been able to find it. If anyone knows where to buy it in North DFW I would appreciate the post. Looks like great stuff for my LCP.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. In my opinion, which is based on my admittedly limited and unscientific tests, I believe the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition to be good stuff for the following reasons:

It is designed to offer reliable expansion after passing through barriers more likely to be encountered by private citizens, ie: leather, denim, and so forth and seems to offer about as good and perhaps a bit better penetration than other standard pressure loads. This is why I didn't try to buy anything other than standard pressure. There are more than a few "good" +P loads available in .38 Special and some folks are really interested in non +P for use in their non +P revolvers or to reduce felt recoil.

The .380 CD seems to feed nicely out of 5 .380's (Bersa Thunder, Bersa Series 95, Walther PP, Beretta Model 85 and SIG-Sauer P232) I've shot it in and is a standard weight JHP bullet in that caliber and reliability is essential in a personal protection arm as we all know. It probably doesn't expand to quite as wide of a diameter as some 380 loads, but its expansion is not insignificant in my opinion and the slight reduction in the "parachute effect" seems to allow for a little deeper penetration. I don't think it makes the FBI's recommended 12" minimum but it isn't far behind.

With respect to expanding bullets, it is my view that this is probably about as good as it gets with the lighter bullets common to the .380 ACP. Most from the 85-gr. STHP's to Winchester Ranger's LE 380 to Remington's 102-gr. Golden Saber seem to get about under 10" penetration. Hornady's XTP frequently makes that as does the CD, but the XTP can fail to expand as reliably depending upon what it passes through before smacking tissue. I shoot lots and lots of XTP's in handloaded 9mm and .45 ACP and like the bullet but this seems to be a complaint against it. Is it a valid one? You decide.

It is my opinion that for frontal torso shots with no barriers, most any of the JHP's will "work" fine. I see the CD's primary improvement as being more reliable under a wider set of conditions. How much difference this would actually make in the real world given equivalent (and proper) shot placement, I cannot say.

Were I carrying a .380, it would likely be loaded with the Hornady CD ammunition.

In my .38's, I still use the Remington 158-gr. LHP +P.

Like the old saying goes, "Ya' pays your money and takes your chances."

Best.

[NcongruNt]

The energy dump theory has been downgraded in some circles as a major factor in incapacitation. But incapacitation/stop rates in police shootings increased dramatically wherever the Super Vel hollowpoint ammo replace ball rounds. What's your take on this?

I was unaware that clogging is a significant problem with modern hollow points like the Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST rounds. Again, experience and comments on this very important issue?

This is why you see so many ballistics test run with terrycloth or denim in front of the testing media. Informal tests by a number of folks have found that sometimes the cavities on the bullets fill up with clothing material, keeping the bullet from expanding and acting ballistically similar to a FMJ round. There is a slight advantage to using JHP even if the bullet does expand: the front of the bullet still has sharp edges, and tears through the edges of organs that a smooth fmj might simply push aside.

As for sources, the ammunition is relatively new, so not a lot of places have it. I know that Ammunition To Go carries it, at least in .380 ACP and .38 Special. Unless you're in the vicinity of Brenham, you'll have to order it from them, though.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/ ... ollow-poin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/ ... tx-hp-ammo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[casingpoint]

If a round passes the four layers denim FBI test, I don't worry about clogging to much.

Maybe that is a mistake on my part. I sure would like to know if there is an acceptable failure rate among the FBI and others who utilize the same data.

[Oldgringo]

...I shoot lots and lots of XTP's in handloaded 9mm and .45 ACP and like the bullet but this seems to be a complaint against it....

I'd be obliged if you'd share your reloading recipes for the above two rounds. I'm particularly interested in using up some Green Dot and 700-X powder that I have on hand.

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. The handloads I use with XTP's don't use either powder you mentioned, but Unique instead:

9mm:

124-gr. Hornady XTP
6.0 gr. Unique
Federal or Winchester SP Primer
Starline Brass
LOA: 1.11"
Average Velocity (Browning Hi Power): 1244 ft/sec

.45 ACP:

230-gr. Hornady XTP
6.4 gr. Unique
Federal or Winchester Primer
Winchester Brass
LOA: 1.22"
Average Velocity (Springfield Armory 5"): 859 ft/sec

Best.

[Oldgringo]

Thank you for the load information and thank you for introducing me to your websites. As it turns out, I too have a Browning Hi Power which I'm quite fond of.

[casingpoint]

Gold Dot non +P shot through heavy cloth into water.

I don't see an expansion problem relating to clogging.

It does appear that in most modern hollowpoints, some degree of temporary clogging when shot through cloth occurs, delaying expansion only momentarily, providing for additional 1-2 inches of penetration. This is a good thing.

More photos: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot10_2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've got some old jeans around. Reckon I'll soak up some newsprint shortly and get to the bottom of this.

[jcheng]

how do these compare to Hornady's TAP?

[NcongruNt]

how do these compare to Hornady's TAP?

Well, the TAP ammunition uses XTP bullets. The difference between that and the regular XTP seems to be nickel-plated cases and powder specially made to minimize muzzle flash on the TAP. This new ammo uses a nickel-plated case as well as minimal-flash powder, so the difference appears only to be the bullet itself. The bullet design is very similar to the XTP, but the dimensions appear to be slightly different, probably tuned for performance with the polymer insert.

So from what I can tell, they are nearly the same round, with the exception of the special bullet designed for enhanced reliability against clothing barrier stoppage. Ballistically, it appears that the new bullet performs and expands the same as the XTP, so it doesn't look like there are any detractors by switching from TAP to the Critical Defense round.

[jcheng]

how do these compare to Hornady's TAP?

Well, the TAP ammunition uses XTP bullets. The difference between that and the regular XTP seems to be nickel-plated cases and powder specially made to minimize muzzle flash on the TAP. This new ammo uses a nickel-plated case as well as minimal-flash powder, so the difference appears only to be the bullet itself. The bullet design is very similar to the XTP, but the dimensions appear to be slightly different, probably tuned for performance with the polymer insert.

So from what I can tell, they are nearly the same round, with the exception of the special bullet designed for enhanced reliability against clothing barrier stoppage. Ballistically, it appears that the new bullet performs and expands the same as the XTP, so it doesn't look like there are any detractors by switching from TAP to the Critical Defense round.

ah ok! Thanks!