Handgun safety styles - Discuss pros and cons.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

As someone new to handgunnery, I am concerned with the safeties on
various handguns. I'd like to lay out what I know about various handguns
and get input from everyone on their experiences and preferences.

Revolvers generally do not have safeties -
Please provide brands and models that might have safeties.
Although I have considered a revolver for a BUG, I'm very leery of carrying
something that might be more prone to an AD/ND.

Glocks - They have the double trigger but to me, this seems like no safety
at all. Reinforcing this was a report I read of an undercover LEO who was
re-holstering his Glock and his sweatshirt's cinching string got caught in the
trigger and discharged the Glock into his leg.
I have heard people express the opinion that a Glock is the safest gun
to carry, but little else was provided as to why they thought so.
Plaxico Burress was carrying his Glock .40 in a pair of
sweatpants, without a holster. The gun fell down from his waistband and as he reached down
to pull it back up he hit the bang button and that's how he shot himself.
But of course this violates all kinds of gun safety rules.

Springfield XD/XDM's - These have the double trigger as well as the grip
safety. I could feel comfortable with these since there are 2 different devices
that need to be involved before "bang" happens.

1911's - Did the original JMB models have a grip safety on the backstrap,
or just the more modern ones?
Do all currently made 1911's have backstrap safeties?
Carrying "cocked and locked" with the hammer back in Condition One seems
dangerous, but I suppose it's no different than having a striker-fired semi-
auto with one in the pipe and the thumb safety on.
A guy at a gun store was of the opinion that if a 1911 is carried in Condition
One that the thumbstrap of the holster should lay across the gap between the hammer
and the cartridge.
Also - Doesn't carrying a 1911 in this manner invite lint and threads to interfere
with firing the weapon?

Thumb safeties - Many guns have these. I am now used to this kind since it's
what my Millenium PT111B has.
My understanding of these is that the classic 1911 safety operates "up is safe,
down to fire".
But didn't 1 or more gun makers (Walther maybe?) screw this up by reversing
the directions?

For safety purposes I am interested in the XD .45 with the thumb safety. This gun
has the double trigger, the backstrap safety, and the thumb safety. My reasoning
is that if a BG grappled with me for the gun, the thumb safety would be one extra
thing that would slow him down from shooting me with my own gun.
Plus, the more I read about people hit with smaller caliber weapons and still
fighting, it makes me think more seriously about moving up to .45ACP.

***************************************************************************************************
Side issue - What do you think about handguns that will or will not fire when the
magazine is ejected? Good safety during a fight for your weapon, or bad since
you may eject the mag by accident and you should at least be able to fire the one
round still in the pipe?

Please comment with your thoughts regarding the different safety styles.

[CompVest]

All the above can be quite safe. It really comes down to what you are comfortable with and how much you are willing to practice to be competent with your choice. I would rather be lucky then good but as I don't want to be dependent on fickle Lady Luck I practice a lot and keep an awareness of what gun I am carrying and what condition it is in.

[psycho_bob42]

A good holster that covers the trigger is also part of the safety system. A gun in a good holster is very safe. This is why you don't carry any kind of gun down your sweatpants. It wouldn't have gone off if it was in a good holster. The only time a gun comes out of the holster is when you are ready to use it.

[PBR]

too me it boils down to what your comfortable with. its your carrying the gun and using it -- your the one that needs to feel safe and know the gun. if you like the safety features of the XD then i would go with that one -- and yes i would go with 45 cal. but for sure nothing smaller than 40.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

PBR:
Being new to carrying a pistol I was hyper-sensitive to an AD. But after
reading some posts from more experienced carriers, and after carrying for
a few months, I have become accustomed to the reality that if your safety is
on and there's no finger pulling the trigger, the gun is simply my quiet friend,
but always at the ready with a snick down of my thumb safety.

[boomerang]

I prefer handguns that fire when I press the trigger and don't fire when the trigger is not pressed. YMMV.

[TEX]

Overall, there are two types of safeties; mechanical and non-mechanical. There are a number of different types of mechanical safeties, but only one non-mechanical safety. The non-mechanical one is the one between your ears, and as you already know it is critically important. This non-mechanical safety is just a lump of neurons until you assemble it and you assemble it with proper training and attitude.

With mechanical safeties there are also two different types; manual and automatic. With both there is one steadfast rule about them and that is “don’t trust them”. They work 99.9% of the time, but they are still man made mechanical devices and can fail to work properly. Would you chamber a round on your pistol, engage the safety, and then point the gun at someone you love and press the trigger, depending on the mechanical safety to keep the pistol from firing? If you said “yes”, then you need to stay away from firearms altogether.

Automatic safeties are ones that come into play or disengage during the normal sequence leading up to actually firing the weapon without you having to do anything extra. Examples would be grip safeties (1911s and XDs), trigger face safeties (Glock, XDs and Smith and Wesson M&P), magazine safeties (Hi-Power and many Smith and Wesson autos), and drop safeties (almost all pistols now).

Grip Safety – this is a device that requires you to grip the pistol properly before the pistol will fire. Some block a component from moving and others disengage a component so that it will not function normally. In my humble opinion grips safeties are wonderful. If the gun is dropped it should still be safe even if the trigger snags something on the way to the ground. It is also safer for reholstering, as it allows you make the gun safe by moving your thumb to the back of the slide when reholstering thus allowing the grip safety to do what it was designed to do. If I could change one thing about a Glock, I would add an XD type grip safety.

Trigger Face Safety – this is a device that prevent the trigger from moving back unless the bar or hinge on the face of the trigger has been depressed. If a pistol with such a safety were dropped, something would have to hit just the right spot on the trigger to make the gun discharge. I don’t think they work all that well. The ones on a Glock or XD are pretty good, but the one on the Smith and Wesson M&P and Sigma are a joke. On these, if anything caught the lower half of the trigger the piece will fire. I feel most pistols don’t need them, but as long as they don’t affect the trigger pull, I suppose they are a benefit.

Magazine Safety – this is a device that prevents the pistol from firing if a magazine is not in place. Standard Browning Hi-Powers and many Smith and Wesson automatics have them. The idea behind this device is that we fallible human beings, in one of our dimmer moments may assume the pistol is unloaded if the magazine is removed. We all know, or should know, that there could still be one in the chamber. There is some merit in such a safety and I feel confident that it has prevented some injuries or deaths. The down sides are only two. One is that it affects the trigger pull (not true in all models) and that during a tactical reload, it leaves you with a gun that will not shoot until you get the fresh magazine inserted. If you know how to properly perform a tactical reload, this time period would be less than a second so I don’t see that as a big issue. The benefit of a magazine safety is that the pistol remains non-functioning until a magazine is inserted. This allows you, in a struggle, to pop the magazine out so that your weapon cannot be used against you. This also allows you to store the pistol in one place and the magazine in another, but still in close enough to make the pistol fully operational in a matter of seconds. For instance the pistol could be on a closet shelf, but the magazine in a certain coat pocket. You would be betting that the magazine safety does work, and that no one will find where you stashed the magazine. I know one person, who when he has to leave his pistol in his vehicle, takes out the magazine and puts it in his pocket so that if they vehicle was stolen, the crook would not immediately have a functioning firearm.

Drop Safeties – in general this refers to firing pin blocks that keep the firing pin from going forward and hitting the primer even of dropped. Almost every sidearm you can think of now has one, except 70 series 1911s. The theory is that if a gun is dropped and happens to hit the ground muzzle end first, the firing pin could keep traveling forward with enough force to cause the round to fire, or that it could jar the hammer lose which in turn would cause the pistol to fire. This can happen, but most tests have shown you would need a tremendous amount of force to make it happen. Some drop safeties work off the trigger and others, like Kimber, work off of the grip safety. The ones that work off the trigger usually do not unblock the firing pin until the trigger is at least 2/3rds of the way back. I think they are generally a good idea if hey don't affect trigger pull, but on some pistols they are superfluous.

As you can see, all of these automatics safeties automatically come into play, or are disengaged, as you draw and fire the pistol. They do not require you to manipulate anything else.

Manual Mechanical Safeties are ones that require you to move a lever to an active or “off” position before the pistol will fire. A model 1911 is a prime example of this type safety. Browning Hi-Powers and BDMs also have such levers. These are often referred to as thumb safeties because you use your thumb to disengage them. These thumb safeties can be mounted on either the frame or the slide, but in my humble opinion, create a big problem if they are mounted on the slide. If it is on the slide, you can accidently place it in the safe or non-firing position while hand cycling the slide or clearing a malfunction. On some double action to single action pistols, this safety may also function as the decocking lever which allows you to return the hammer to a double action position. On models with true thumb safeties like the 1911, it is suggested that you keep you strong hand thumb on top of the safety in order to prevent it being accidently moved into the “safe” position while shooting.

That about covers it I believe. I am sure there are some other exotic pistol safeties I am not aware of. When you move from pistols to carbines or rifles, you get into a whole different set of safeties, most of which are manual mechanical safeties that require you to move a lever to the "off" position in order to fire the weapon.

As far as pro and cons, each has its merit I suppose, but I would stay away from slide mounted manual safeties unless they are actually spring loaded de-cocking levers. Grip safeties are great as are drop safeties that do not affect the trigger pull. Magazine safeties probably have their place and manual safeties are a must on single action pistols like the 1911 and Browning Hi-Power. I am a Glock fan and it already has a number of automatic safeties, but as I stated earlier, if I were Gaston Glock, I would add a grip safety to the pistol.

Almost all accidental shooting are the result of the non-mechanical safety (that’s you) not doing their part by following the four foundational safety rules at all times. If everyone followed these safety rules religiously, accidental shootings would become very rare if not nonexistent.

1. All guns are always loaded – even when they are unloaded.

2. Don’t point your muzzle at anything you don’t plan to destroy

3. Keep you finger out of the trigger guards until you have made the decision to shoot and are on target.

4. Always be aware of your backstop and surroundings.

[Liberty]

There is one other safety that hasn't been mentioned it is the key and lock found on some Smith and Wessons, and Taurus' You can lock the gun with a key and it is inoperable until unlocked. I never heard of anyone actually using this "feature" though. I believe it is a Brady invention.

[pedalman]

There is one other safety that hasn't been mentioned it is the key and lock found on some Smith and Wessons, and Taurus' You can lock the gun with a key and it is inoperable until unlocked. I never heard of anyone actually using this "feature" though. I believe it is a Brady invention.

Yeah, I have this lock on my Taurus 85 Ultralite. When I bought it, I read the manual, and tried the lock to see if it functioned. Then I unlocked the revolver, and put the keys away in a drawer.

I use safes/steel lockboxes for storage. I want nothing to do with this internal (infernal) locking device.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

To TEX:
Thank you for your long post above on safety styles.

What's a BDM?

Also, can you enlighten the viewers at home on the semantics or
actual differences between a "safety" and a "de-cocking lever"?

[LarryH]

What's a BDM?

Also, can you enlighten the viewers at home on the semantics or
actual differences between a "safety" and a "de-cocking lever"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_BDM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A decocking lever drops the hammer slowly from full cock to a "safer" position. The weapon will fire if the trigger is pulled, but as a double-action trigger rather than a single-action trigger.

A safety (if it is working properly) will not allow the weapon to fire if the trigger is pulled (or you attempt to pull the trigger). Some, probably most, safeties prevent the trigger from moving; at least one that I know of (Marlin 30-30 lever action) allow you to pull the trigger, but block the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

[Mithras61]

Magazine Safety – this is a device that prevents the pistol from firing if a magazine is not in place. Standard Browning Hi-Powers and many Smith and Wesson automatics have them. The idea behind this device is that we fallible human beings, in one of our dimmer moments may assume the pistol is unloaded if the magazine is removed. We all know, or should know, that there could still be one in the chamber. There is some merit in such a safety and I feel confident that it has prevented some injuries or deaths. The down sides are only two. One is that it affects the trigger pull (not true in all models) and that during a tactical reload, it leaves you with a gun that will not shoot until you get the fresh magazine inserted. If you know how to properly perform a tactical reload, this time period would be less than a second so I don’t see that as a big issue. The benefit of a magazine safety is that the pistol remains non-functioning until a magazine is inserted. This allows you, in a struggle, to pop the magazine out so that your weapon cannot be used against you. This also allows you to store the pistol in one place and the magazine in another, but still in close enough to make the pistol fully operational in a matter of seconds. For instance the pistol could be on a closet shelf, but the magazine in a certain coat pocket. You would be betting that the magazine safety does work, and that no one will find where you stashed the magazine. I know one person, who when he has to leave his pistol in his vehicle, takes out the magazine and puts it in his pocket so that if they vehicle was stolen, the crook would not immediately have a functioning firearm.

This magazine "safety" is the one that requires you to have a magazine in the weapon during tear-down so that you can drop the hammer after clearing the weapon. I have a 22-45 Ruger that has this type of "safety" on it, and IMHO all it does is force a violation of the rules of gun safety. I'm a believer in not having ammunition and feeding devices (aka magazines) on hand for cleaning handguns. The magazine "safety" requires that I violate this guideline as well as Rule 3. I would agree with you that it may have its place, but I don't think handguns are the right place.

As to the other types of safeties, I would generally agree that your analysis is on target. I would encourage anyone who hesitates to leave one in the pipe to load their weapon, engage the safety (or safeties), and place that weapon on a flat surface that will remain undisturbed and see how long it takes for the safety to disangage and for the handgun to fire. I suspect you'll be waiting an exceedingly long time.

In every AD/ND that I have read about, at least one of the four rules was disregarded. The only safety that will prevent that AD/ND from happening is the one between your ears.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

To LarryH:

Thanks for the BDM link. I read it and now know what it is.

[G.C.Montgomery]

There is one other safety that hasn't been mentioned it is the key and lock found on some Smith and Wessons, and Taurus' You can lock the gun with a key and it is inoperable until unlocked. I never heard of anyone actually using this "feature" though. I believe it is a Brady invention.

That's not a "safety." It is indeed a result of pestering from the Brady Bunch and is more accurately referred to as a integral gun lock. It renders the gun inoperable without a key. Many manufacturers have begun to integrate these devices into their design or offer them as an option. I'd rather keep the gun in a locking container that is accessible without keys.

[Liberty]

To TEX:
Thank you for your long post above on safety styles.

What's a BDM?

Also, can you enlighten the viewers at home on the semantics or
actual differences between a "safety" and a "de-cocking lever"?

In a typical DA/SA with manual the safety will decock the gun so the hammer will fall, and disconnect the trigger from the firing mechanism.
a de-cocking lever is a safety lever that won't stay in the safe position because it is spring loaded.