Walther PPS or Glock subcompact?

[CainA]

For a reliable gun that size, check out a Smith 3919 single stack 9mm semi auto, 3.5 inch harrel, decoker, the NYPD issue sidearm to detectives for years. PPS Walthers seem to have reliability issues. Glocks have AD issues. As far as I can tell, the 3913 has no issues other that it is a little heavier.

The 3919 addresses one of the biggest mistakes ever made by Walther, the elimination of the optional decoker and the DA/SA AS trigger found on the 10-shot P99 Compact. On that weapon comparable Glock 26, the Walther PPS utilizes the QA, a Glock type trigger. JMHO.

casingpoint, that's an interesting comparison I hadn't thought of. I have no range time with those older metal frame S&W semi-autos, but have always heard great things about them. Is 3919 discontinued? Couldn't find it anywhere, but I seem to remember it being very similar to this gun 908 from S&W web site ... http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/ ... y_rn=15712 . Does this one look similar?

I think he meant 3913



-Cain

[RHenriksen]

I've had a Glock 23 for a decade or more. Was never terribly comfortable carrying it IWB because of its thickness. Then discovered the PPS at a gun show a couple of months ago, bought it immediately, and was inspired to get my CHL renewed (still waiting on that plastic...)

I really like both firearms. I think the PPS in 9mm is comparable in felt recoil to the Glock 23. Definitely looking forward to carrying w. the PPS.

If you find yourself in Houston, you're welcome to test drive the PPS at the range.

[Cowboyrob]

i have the Walther PPS in 9mm. Well constructed gun with not a single FTF or FTE in ~1000 rounds. try it You'll like it

[AEA]

I suggest you consider a Kahr.

Thanks AEA. But I've "been there, done that" and will not do so again. I don't intend to demean a brand of firearms that many people believe in and use daily, but my experience with Kahr (a PM40) was horrible and I doubt I'll ever own one of their products again.

After about 6 months of use (don't know round counts, but probably in the 700-1000 range), I started getting regular jams, failure-to-eject and all sorts of other problems. This was beyond the one-round-per-box jams I had come to expect with this gun. At one point, the gun would not complete a full magazine without multiple problems. After discussing this with knowledgeable gun professionals at gun shops, ranges, gunsmiths etc., I gained the impression that the polymer used in the Kahr PM series guns is not strong enough and over time - especially with a tiny gun in .40 cal like the PM40 - will actually expand or swell to the point of affecting proper recycling of the large steel slide. So I sent the gun back to Kahr for repair. Took more than a month, but finally received the gun back - no explanation or any other decent customer service at all. I took the gun to the range and ran half a box of ammo through it just to be sure it was "fixed" before trading it at a gun show (I don't want transferring a known "problem gun" to another citizen on my conscience - Kahr says its fixed and I verified it as best I could before dumping it).

While the Kahr was away for repair, I bought my S&W J-frame. I had sold a Charter Arms .38 to buy the Kahr, and decided to go back to a gun type I KNEW would go bang every time I pulled the trigger. On a gun I carry regularly, the most important aspect above all else for me is reliability. This is why I will NEVER be without at least one J-frame size wheel gun again. If all else fails - I know that gun will go bang and there are multiple ways to carry it concealed.

All this having been said, I continually run into people who LOVE their Kahrs, but 9 out of 10 of these folks love the steel-frame guns. If I was to ever try a Kahr again, it would be the steel-frame pocket gun. But my J-frame Airweight is lighter, carries only one fewer round, and I actually now shoot better with it than the old Kahr (with a lot of practice). So I see no real benefit to a steel-frame Kahr.

A Walther or Glock, on the other hand, offer improved accuracy and firepower over my J-frame. And if the reliability is good (a given on the Glock; a good possibility on the Walther), then the improved accuracy will make the addition of one of these guns to my carry options worthwhile - whereas a Kahr steel-frame just wouldn't offer much improvement to me personally over my J-frame revolver.

I too have 2 Smith J frames and love them.

You are correct that I was suggesting the all steel Kahr K9 (which I also own). The advantage over the J frames is of course 8 rounds instead of 5 and a more powerful round (9mm, including +P and +P+).

Good luck in your quest!

[TexasVet]

About Walther PPS problems.. Well that was with the first editions. I had one of those too. Got the nice collectors edition gun. It had problems with the slide locking back, failing to go into battery. Sent back to s&W, could/would not fix it due to parts not being available. I was skeptical as I read that a lot of other 1st ed owners had the same problem. Walther/S&W learned and fixed the bug and the regular edition black guns do not have the problem. I have had mine for months and I have not had ANY issues with it. No FTF, no AD, no problem. Carried, shot, cleaned.. works. And it is slim. Again.. find someone who has one and shoot it.

[Glocktex]

I carry a Glock 36 after much searching and find it to be the perfect balance of size and caliber. Single stack 45 of 6+1 is hard to beat. Thin, light and a big punch

[A-R]

I too have 2 Smith J frames and love them.

You are correct that I was suggesting the all steel Kahr K9 (which I also own). The advantage over the J frames is of course 8 rounds instead of 5 and a more powerful round (9mm, including +P and +P+).

Good luck in your quest!

The K-series Kahrs are larger than the PM series, correct? And thus larger in many ways than the J-frame revolvers. The steel-frame Kahr I considered after ditching my PM40 was the MK-series, which is basically identical barrel & slide to the PM series, but with a steel frame. In .40 these guns are 5+1 but in 9mm they do get 6+1. Just didn't seem a worthwhile difference over the J-frame to me - especially considering my Airweight 638 was $435 and a new MK9 or MK40 would set me back at least $600.

[A-R]

I carry a Glock 36 after much searching and find it to be the perfect balance of size and caliber. Single stack 45 of 6+1 is hard to beat. Thin, light and a big punch

I do like this design. However, even though it is single stack, the total width of the gun is almost same as a G23/G27 - only a few millimeters thinner - because of the much bulkier.45 round.

I wish Glock would scale down this design into a thin-profile, single-stack 9mm/.40 - I would be first in line to buy one of those. This is basically what Walther has done with the PPS. I could even envision a whole new lineup of single-stack Glocks in full-size, compact, and subcompact frame sizes. Figure out a way for the single-stack mags to still function in a double-stack Glock in a pinch and you would have the Gun of the Year for sure. Think of the combinations - a full-size G22 and a single-stack subcompact G?? as it's little brother.

I realize it's blasphemy to even suggest this, but I often wonder if a company like Glock were to manufacture a full line of single-stack handguns, could they give the ol' 1911 design a run for it's money? Probably not (too many 1911 die hards - and let's face it, that is a remarkable design), but I would certainly love to see the "competition".

As more and more everyday folks begin to carry, I think the move toward more single-stack "thin" guns for IWB carry will only increase - especially if another 10-round mag limitation becomes Federal law in Obamaland.

[A-R]

I think he meant 3913



-Cain

Thanks for the photo Cain. And thanks again for the suggestion, casingpoint. I'm actually intrigued by this pistol. I think I've seen one of these used somewhere locally. Does S&W still manufacture this gun? Only one web site lists it.

Also, what is the trigger like? Would it be comparable to a S&W revolver trigger? Or is is softer/smoother than that? I'm not a huge fan of heavy DA triggers (though I have two DA triggers in my carry guns - J-frame & LCP). Can the 3913 be carried "cocked & locked"?

Also, how does the size/characteristics of the S&W 3913 compare to a Sig 239? That's a gun I've fired and liked. It's definitely bigger than PPS or G27 (though possibly a tad thinner than G27).

[rguerra911]

well, can not really comment on the walther, as i do not have one nor have i ever shot one. i do have a g27 (jr). and he goes everywhere with me. i only carry iwb with a bladetech kydex holster that is tuckable. i too am a big guy and find this to be the best way to carry for me. i have thought about getting a 9mm but have kinda been stuck in the position as you. i think the only reason i would get a 9mm would be for the boss (wifey) as she has seen the increasing violence in our area and is wanting her own gun now. at this point i would have to vote for the g27, mostly because you already have everything for it. you already have mags and holsters that fit. for work, i would stick to the j frames. i have had my eye on those for a while and will most likely be my next purchase..ahem....of course after the wifey gets her carry piece. but only my .2 worth. let us know what you decide.

[A-R]

Well, I had ample opportunity to pick up either gun (or both) at the Saxet gun show in Austin this weekend. But I used extraordinary willpower and only bought some much needed AR-15 accessories and no new firearms. This is truly remarkable when considering I was able to sell of my nearly new Ruger Mini 14 Tactical to a nice father-son tandem and had plenty of cash in my front pocket if I had wanted to bring home a new gun.

One other factor that is starting to enter the pro/con comparison of G27 vs. PPS, the G27, especially if purchased used, is significantly less expensive than the PPS. At the show, I saw used G27s listed as low as $450, and one desperate seller said he would part with his for $425 (I was REALLY tempted by this one). New G27s were in the $525-$550 range (about what you'd pay for one off the shelf at Academy). The PPS, on the other hand, were going for $575 up to $650 new and there were no used guns at the show.

Unless my impulses get the better of me, I'm thinking I may hold off on this purchase for a while. I really want to get an EOTech & BUIS for my AR-15 soon and that will eat up the same $500-$600 that a new pistol would cost. I also bought a Ruger 10/22 from Academy last week ($187) and would like to trick it out with a bull barrel, stock, and trigger group.

[CainA]

Does S&W still manufacture this gun?

I don't think they're made anymore, they've been around a while.

Also, what is the trigger like? Would it be comparable to a S&W revolver trigger? Or is is softer/smoother than that? I'm not a huge fan of heavy DA triggers (though I have two DA triggers in my carry guns - J-frame & LCP). Can the 3913 be carried "cocked & locked"?

No (cocked and locked), the safety is a decocker too. So when the hammer is back and you put the safety on, the hammer drops onto a bar that shields the firing pin. I'd imagine the double action pull would be similar to a revolver; keep in mind that only the first shot is double action, you then transition into single action mode for subsequent shots.

Also, how does the size/characteristics of the S&W 3913 compare to a Sig 239? That's a gun I've fired and liked. It's definitely bigger than PPS or G27 (though possibly a tad thinner than G27).

I don't know the size of ths Sig, but a 3913 has a single stack 8 round magazine/grip, so it's relatively thin.

Hope that helps.

-Cain

[PX]

OK, here's another country heard from.. Just personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

I "had" a Glock 26 in the past. I didn't care for the "glocktrigger/striker" and the grip felt like a brick.. Terrible grip ergonomics. It was accurate and reliable. Overall I think Glocks are fine pistols, they just don't "do it" for me..

I "had" a Walther PPS.. It was an early one and a pos. S&W (who does the warranty work for these PPS"s) failed to fix my first PPS when i sent it back for ejector problems, and on the 2nd trip back I told them to fix it, or keep it and replace it with a new one, or get my money back. The third round fired through the NEW replacement PPS hung up, and I sold the sucker.''

The best pistol I "had" of this type was the Walther P99c/AS... The P99c/AS corrected the problems I found in the original Glock 26, and was more accurate (and 100% reliable) than either the Glock or the PPS.

I sold the p99c/AS after buying the PPS because I thought their virtues overlapped to the extent having both was redundant, and that was a big mistake. I miss that deadly accurate P99c/AS.

By the way, to whoever made the comment about the "Walther pistols made by S&W"? No such animal.

S&W is the importer of the P99 and PPS series as well as the P22's.. They provide warranty work for these pistols (1yr), but have nothing to do with the manufacture of them, as they import only.

S&W DOES make the PPK as that pistol is solely owned by S&W now. S&W made the slide and barrel for the now defunct (I think) SW99, which in every other regard WAS all Walther. The SW99 had a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser.

FWIW, I've had a pile of 9mm pistols (still have about 8-9) but my daily carry choice is an LWS380.. It can make the trip anytime, many times when a larger pistol could not be concealed sufficiently..



When I DO feel the need for a larger caliber cc pistol (to go along WITH my LWS380) I prefer the 9mm CS9, or the 45ACP CS45.. Hard to beat a 3rd gen Smith..



Just personal opinion, no offense to those who might disagree.

Best Wishes,

Jesse

[A-R]

Thanks PX. That is a nice-looking Seacamp. I too carry a small .380 pocket pistol quite often - Ruger LCP. But the PPS vs. baby Glock decision is for an "in-between" semi-auto gun that I can comfortably carry in a tuckable IWB holster (used to carry my Glock 23 this way - but extra cushion around my midsection makes this uncomfortable now).