Need advice and/or "Best Practice" for selling a handgun

[Rex B]

well, sort of.
When you buy a new gun two things happen:
1 - (non-CHLs) The dealer calls NICS and gets approval. The feds are not supposed to keep records of this (but they probably do).
2 - You fill out a 4473. The dealer keeps a copy on file forever, or until he gives up his license, or dies. Then the paper file must be sent to BATFE. They are not supposed to digitize this information into a database (but they probably do).

If a gun is recovered from a crime scene, they go back to the manufacturer to see where it was sold. They follow that trail down to the dealer that sold it to the retail customer (you). They might then knock on your door and ask what happened to that gun.

I just keep records of names, emails, phone numbers and such, or just a note on the original "sold to bob@yourisp.com 12/3/07"
But legally, something like this is good enough. "Oh, I swapped that thing off not long after I bought it. No, don't recall much about the guy".

IANAL YMMV etc

[A-R]

But legally, something like this is good enough. "Oh, I swapped that thing off not long after I bought it. No, don't recall much about the guy".

IANAL, but I'd be careful about the above heavily emphasized phrase what with BATF apparently on the prowl for "straw purchases" these days. I'd say something more like "I bought it, shot it, didn't like it, so sold it to some other guy" ... or "I bought it, took it home, wife threatened to divorce me over it, so I sold it to some other guy"

[LarryH]

Not in Texas.

If you buy a new firearm from an FFL and then sell it to an individual, and the firearm subsequently comes to the attention of the authorities, they will be able to trace it to you. However, if your account of selling it seems credible, that will be the end of the matter.

There are some states where private sales must go through FFLs.

- Jim

This brings up another question. As mentioned in another thread, I just bought a Colt Gov't Model for one brother and a Springfield XDM-9 for the other. Both brothers live in Minnesota. Neither currently holds a CHL.

I plan to give them the guns (and a couple hundred rounds each) when we go up there on vacation.

Is there likely to be a requirement to use FFL to transfer a gift pistol? A pointer to the appropriate statute(s) would be appreciated.

[seamusTX]

It is my understand that all interstate transfers of firearms (other than antiques or inheritances) require the cooperation of an FFL. In the case of handguns, it must be in the recipient's state of residence.

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? [Back]

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee [FFL or C&R] in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Although this FAQ uses the word sell, the underlying law uses the term transfer, which applies to gifts as well as sales.

It's also my understanding that such a transfer is an offense for both parties.

As usual, IANAL.

- Jim

[LarryH]

Thanks. I'll have to look for FFL in that part of Minnesota, just to be sure.

[seamusTX]

You can find FFLs who are willing to do out-of-state transfers on http://www.auctionarms.com/help/fflnetwork.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You might have to register to get to that page.

- Jim

[Rex B]

See if you can find a FFL local to your brothers that works out of his house and odes transfers cheap.
Gunbroker has a list online.
Also find a firearms or hunting forum for that state and see if they have a list. Most do.

[LarryH]

Thanks again. That was easy. Found one in XXXXXX, MN who charges $20 per transfer and one in YYYYYY, ND who charges $10 per. Since both brothers live in MN (one in XXXXXX and the other within easy driving distance of there), I assume I'll need to use the one in MN.

[Rex B]

That would be correct.

[doghouse]

Thank you for the info.

[Liberty]

But legally, something like this is good enough. "Oh, I swapped that thing off not long after I bought it. No, don't recall much about the guy".

IANAL, but I'd be careful about the above heavily emphasized phrase what with BATF apparently on the prowl for "straw purchases" these days. I'd say something more like "I bought it, shot it, didn't like it, so sold it to some other guy" ... or "I bought it, took it home, wife threatened to divorce me over it, so I sold it to some other guy"

Remember Martha Stuart and Scooter Libby. Lying to the feds can get you in more trouble than any actual wrongdoing. My suggestion is to never ever to the Feds. Let a lawyer do the talking for you. Even an unintentional misspeak can be dangerous.

[A-R]

But legally, something like this is good enough. "Oh, I swapped that thing off not long after I bought it. No, don't recall much about the guy".

IANAL, but I'd be careful about the above heavily emphasized phrase what with BATF apparently on the prowl for "straw purchases" these days. I'd say something more like "I bought it, shot it, didn't like it, so sold it to some other guy" ... or "I bought it, took it home, wife threatened to divorce me over it, so I sold it to some other guy"

Remember Martha Stuart and Scooter Libby. Lying to the feds can get you in more trouble than any actual wrongdoing. My suggestion is to never ever to the Feds. Let a lawyer do the talking for you. Even an unintentional misspeak can be dangerous.

I was not in any way condoning lying to Feds or anyone else. I was saying to be careful in the words you use with them (or, as suggested, don't speak to them at all - let your lawyer do it) .... tell them the TRUTH and make sure the TRUTH is not going to wind up getting you hassled about a straw purchase scenario. I've heard of guys buying AR-15s from Academy and immediatly taking them to the gun show to sell off for $200 more than they paid. While this is a great example of Capitalism, it is also dangerously close to a straw purchase (may technically be one - I dunno) ... when I buy a gun and then have buyers remourse, I always wait AT LEAST a month before even contemplating selling it. This way it truly is NOT a straw purchase - at least not in my book. As usual, IANAL. your mileage may vary.

[Jeremae]

Actually buying a gun at academy and then going to a gun show to sell for a $200 profit is NOT a straw purchase, but BATFE does consider it dealing in firearms without a license (also a federal felony). To be a straw purchase, you are buying a gun for someone who is ineligble to purchase it themself.