What ammo load do you carry, and why?

[Mithras61]

I'm trying to decide what type of rounds to carry. I grew up shooting, buut never worried too much about what rounds, because FMJ seemed like the best all-around choice. I haven't done much shooting in the last 20 years, though, and the choices of load seem to have multiplied. I chatted with my father, and he carries FMJ because of where he lives (northern WI) and he wants to be able to hit the BG even if BG ducks behind a wall or around the corner. He lives a good 30 minutes from police assistance on the good days, so he feels the burden more than some folks, he says. He learned to shoot in USMC back in the 50s, and I wonder if that colors his feelings on the subject, so I ask:

What loads do you carry, and why? The options seem to be FMJ, JHP, safety slugs, Hydrashok, Golden sabres, and more, so I find myself wondering where to even start looking for good and reliable info.

[JLaw]

Mithras61,

Welcome to the forum! It's nice to have another Spring/Woodlands area member here, we're starting to add up to something now.

When my main carry was a S&W 908 9mm I carried 124 grn +P Speer Gold Dots. Now my main carry has become a 2 1/2" S&W model 19 and I'm carrying 150 grn PMC Starfire HP's in .357 Mag. Why? Cuz that's all I've got right now. Haven't decided what I'll chamber it with when the PMC's run out.

You'll find lots of very helpful information here, and I believe the majority may lean away from carrying FMJ ammo unless a) that's all you have on hand or b) it's a very small caliber weapon - i.e. .25 ACP or .32 auto.

Again, welcome aboard, hope you learn as much as I have from this forum.

JLaw

[eagleeye]

I shoot 357sig Golddot JHP for carry. I think it depends greatly on what cal. you carry. I want penatration and expansion for stopping power. Smaller cal. may require FMJ to get the penetration needed.

Other past threads have some good tech. info. I would rather go practice putting the pill where it counts rather than reading about what happens when it lands.

With 500+ members we you will hear that many different opinions.

[HighVelocity]

I like the Gold Dot bullet, Golden Saber and Ranger T.
All function reliably in my guns, are consitantly accurate and have good street records.

There is no magic bullet and no matter how good a bullet is claimed to be, if the ammo won't function in your gun then it means nothing. If you can't put the bullet in the target, it means nothing.
Function and accuracy are the most important aspect of any ammunition imho.

[Mithras61]

Well, I'm going to be carrying a SA 1911-A1 GI MilSpec .45 ACP with the 5" barrel, so it can take the +P loads as well as the standard loads.

I want to be able to stop a BG even if he ducks around the corner of the wall, but I don't want to accidentally shoot my neighbor. My concern about deforming rounds is that they won't have enough punch if they end up going through the wall to stop the BG, but the FMJ will probably go through a couple walls if I miss the BG.

I'm currently getting a 4" group at 15 yards with 50 rounds per target, and am working diligently to improve that.

It isn't how fast you shoot, it's how fast you can be accurate.

[MoJo]

Just about any premium brand JHP will serve you well as a self defense round. Some of the higher rated loads are: CorBon DPX, Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Winchester SXT and Federal Hydrashock.

If you are on a budget look at the Winchester USA (white box) JHP offerings in 9mm, 40, 45 ACP, 357 Mag, and .38 special these loadings are reliable and effective and priced so you can practice with them.

Hope this helps.

MoJo

edit:

between starting my post and posting - - - I got a phone call - - - I see you are interested in barrier penetration - - - Not a good idea to shoot at a target you can't see even if you know the BG is behind the wall etc. Such practices have jail and or poverty written all over them. With that caveat, DPX offers excellent barrier penetration along with reliable expansion.

[Greybeard]

Now that you clarified caliber as 45ACP, methinks that just about any of the major mfgrs. JHPs wold be fine - so long as you do your part. And understand that even the JHPs may or may not expand in humans, thus penetrating almost like ball ammo - which some think is just fine as it is.

Primary criteria, as others have said is reliability and accuracy. The "standard" suggestion is minimum of 200 rounds of exactly whatever cartridge planned for defensive carry with 0 (zero, none, nada!) malfunctions before risking your life on it.

That said, because it has one of the highest probabilities of both reliable feeding on one end and good expansion on the other, Cor-Bon Power Ball would likely be one of my top choices in .45ACP - if I could afford the first 200 rounds!

[flintknapper]

I use Cor-Bon 230 gr. only because they function reliably through my weapon and are also the most accurate of those I have tried.

As previously mentioned, there are many good personal defense rounds on the market.

This may help:


L. Bengtson Arms Company
Experiment:
Test Expansion Characteristics and Velocities of Several .45 ACP Commercial Cartridges
by Les Bengtson

L. Bengtson Arms Co.: Articles:


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AMMUNITION TO BE TESTED:

Federal Hydra Shok-230 grain bullet
Remington Golden Sabre-230 grain bullet
Hornady-200 grain bullet
Hornady-230 grain bullet
Winchester STX-230 grain bullet
CCI Blazer 200 grain bullet
Speer Gold Dot-230 grain bullet
Cor Bon-230 grain bullet
U.S. National Match-230 grain bullet (control)
Handload-200 grain lead SWC over 5.6 gr. 231 (control)


PROCEDURE:

1. Fire five rounds of each type of ammunition through a Model 1911A1 pistol. Each round will be chronographed and will impact into a series of wet telephone directories. Each bullet will be recovered before next shot is fired and directories shifted so that a fresh spot will be hit each time. Each recovered bullet will be labeled as to order fired and velocity of that shot will be logged. Recovered bullets will be segregated by manufacture and placed in a plastic bag labeled with its type. When firing tests are completed, each bullet will be weighed and measured for expansion.

2. Using the average velocity of each five shot string, a table will be made up showing average velocity, average expansion, average momentum and an overall factor. From this information a series of calculations will be made. The first calculation will show average momentum of the rounds--velocity X mass divided by 7000 to give the answer in foot pounds. The second calculation will be momentum times the expanded average diameter of the bullet. This will give an idea of the maximum destructive potential of the bullet at the end of its flight and will be referred to as the overall factor. It may be considered as a significant component of stopping power. Depth of penetration is another significant component of stopping power. If the well expanded bullet is not capable of penetrating to a vital area, it will be less effective than a non-expanding bullet that will penetrate to the vitals.

3. A second set of tests will be conducted following the same procedures using a Colt Officer's ACP to test the effect the of the shorter barrel length. From these two tests, the results of using this ammunition in a Commander length barrel can be extrapolated.

AMMUNITION TEST RESULTS:

On 16 Sept 95, actual firing tests were conducted on the above ammunitions. All ammunition was bought commercially except the 200 grain lead SWC load and should represent currently available offerings. It should be remembered, however, that ammunition companies may change bullet construction or loading data without notice to the consumer. With this in mind, I would recommend that you test any ammunition you might be considering prior to purchasing any great amount of it to ensure that it: a) performs in a similar manner to the ammunition I have tested here and b) will feed and eject properly in your pistol.

All of the various bullet styles cycled worked properly in my pistols and no feeding/ejection problems were noted.

All of the 230 grain loads maintained their bullet weight with no more than a few grains loss. Most of the recovered bullets weighed 230 grains and none was less than 221 grains. All bullets expanded well and held together without breaking up.

With the 200 grain bullets the results varied significantly. The 200 grain Hornady Jacketed Hollow Point lost about 5% of its weight and showed relatively little expansion. Velocity of the Hornady 200 grain bullet was less than that of the 230 grain Hornady in both pistols. The 200 grain CCI Blazer (same bullet as the Speer/CCI Lawman ammo) was of significantly higher velocity than the Hornady, but tended to break up. In the majority of cases, the jacket separated from the core. Recovered bullets weighed from 186 grains down to 95 grains. The 95 grain bullet had not separated from the jacket. This round also has a reputation for unreliable feeding, but I have never had this problem in any of the guns I have tested it in.

The COR-BON 230 grain load is advertised as being capable of 950 fps in a Government model. It showed just slightly higher than this in the Government model I tested--958 fps. The bullet appears to be the Speer Gold Dot bullet. This load is highly recommended (it is a more expensive "premium" load) by one Famous Gun Writer. He is also a COR-BON distributor. It is slightly superior to the Hornady 230 grain load in the Government model and slightly inferior to the Federal Hydra Shok in the Officer's ACP.

Recommendations

The 230 grain loads consistently out perform the 200 grain loads. I would prefer any 230 grain load to any 200 grain load. I consider the 200 grain Hornady load to be marginally acceptable. It does not expand as well as the 230 grain loads, nor does it penetrate significantly better. It probably offers about the same stopping power as the 200 grain lead SWC.

Of the 230 grain loads, the Hornady, Federal, Remington and COR-BON were the top rated loads in the Government model. In the Officer's ACP, the Federal, Remington, Speer and COR-BON were top rated. If I had to pick only one brand of ammunition to use, it would be the 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shok. It is, however, the most expensive ammo available (except for COR-BON). Remington 230 grain Golden Sabre is the least expensive on a per cartridge basis (it is 25 per box while the rest are 20 per box). The Hornady 230 grain is significantly less expensive than the Federal and out performs it in the Government model. If I were to stock two different brands of ammo, I would use the Hornady in my Government models and the Federal in Commanders and Officer's ACPs.

One last area of concern is penetration. All of the expanding bullets stopped within about 6" of penetration. The 200 grain Lead SWC penetrated over 9" and the 230 grain FMJ penetrated over 11". For straight on shots all of the 230 grain loads should suffice. For shots angled in from the side, especially if they have to penetrate the arm before entering the chest cavity, their penetration may be insufficient. For penetration of automobile doors and windshields, most of the momentum of the bullet may be used up in penetrating the barrier when expanding bullets are used. There is still a need for the 230 grain FMJ where maximum penetration is required. The Hornady 230 grain "Flat Point" may be the best bullet here, but the traditional round nose is also acceptable. While in Alaska, I carried a Government model with factory FMJ as a bear gun when we knew there were wounded bears in the area.

The lack of penetration and weight retention of the 200 grain CCI bullet may make it preferable for use in a house gun. Many of the currently built homes only have sheet rock interior walls. While I do not think any of the 230 grain bullets would penetrate the chest cavity and exit with sufficient velocity to pass through two layers of sheet rock, they could if they only hit the arm, neck or the shoulder above the collar bone. In this case, the CCI load might prove preferable. I would not, however, use this load myself.


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.45 ACP AMMUNITION TEST DATA

Government Model:
Brand Velocity Bullet Momentum Expand Factor
Federal 834 230 27.40 .730" 20.00
Remington 869 230 28.55 .715" 20.41
Hornady 857 200 24.48 .551" 13.49
Hornady 926 230 30.43 .721" 21.94
Winchester 828 230 27.21 .683" 18.58
CCI Blazer 965 200 27.57 .587" 16.18
Speer 869 230 28.55 .665" 18.99
COR-BON 958 230 31.48 .718" 22.60
Nat Match 820 230 26.94 .451" 12.15
Handload 910 200 26.00 .451" 11.73



Officer's ACP:
Brand Velocity Bullet Momentum Expand Factor
Federal 835 230 27.44 .743" 20.39
Remington 822 230 27.01 .721" 19.47
Hornady 796 200 22.74 .568" 12.92
Hornady 846 230 27.80 .645" 17.93
Winchester 783 230 25.73 .659" 16.96
CCI Blazer 915 200 26.14 .650" 16.99
Speer 810 230 26.61 .683" 18.17
COR-BON 886 230 29.11 .655" 19.06
Nat Match 784 230 25.76 .451" 11.62
Handload 826 200 23.60 .451" 10.64

This monograph may be reproduced only for non-commercial use without other permission of the author. Reproduction for commercial use only by written permission.

Copyright © 1995 by Les Bengtson

[Syntax360]

You really can't beat Winchester Rangers, Gold Dot, or bonded Golden Sabers in just about any caliber. My .45 carry pistol is a USPc - I insist on a 230gr. load for reasons already mentioned. However, most 230gr. loads are not going to perform as well from my 3.5" barrel as they would from the 5" barrel they were designed for. I currently carry Double Tap 230gr. Gold Dots to make up for the loss in velocity due to barrel length. I am quite pleased with the results.

I like 180gr. Rangers in .40, 127gr. +P+ Rangers in 9mm, 135gr +P Gold Dots in .38spl, and I carry FMJ in .380 or less (though .380 is as low as I care to go).

If FMJ was all I had lying around, I wouldn't fret too much about carrying it in .45. Carry whatever you feel comfortable with, feeds reliably, and shoots accurately every time.

[Greybeard]

Whowuzitsed? " 9mm may or may not expand, but 45 definitely won't shrink." Yea, 230 grain FMJs fine in a bind.

[age_ranger]

Lately it's been the Speer Gold Dots for their reputation as a reliable, accurate and well performing round. I've also carried with CorBon's DPX rounds for the same reasons and also Winchester Rangers.

[spud]

I carry Federal Tatical HST 180gr .40S&W in my Walther P99, and Speer GoldDot 90gr .380 in my Kel-Tec P3AT.

After the Pepsi challenge and a few hundred bucks, I chose those.

[Houston1944]

Federal Hydra Shoks in my 9mm 239, Gold Dots in my Kimber 9mm, both 124 gr and Remington 230 gr Golden Sabers for 45's.

[Texasdoc]

I shoot a 180gr. Winchester Ranger SXT out of my Glock 23 40S&W. why do I shoot these, its what the Sheriff's dept. issues and I was given 3 boxes of 50.

Also there was a Study done by By federal that compared there 180gr HST and the 180 SXT and they both compared very close to each other in most tests .

I will post this when i can find it again .


300shooter

[xenatexas13]

I’m an apartment dweller and need to keep the safety of my neighbors in mind so the Ruger SP101 is loaded with Magsafe 357 Swat loads.