Video:Greensboro,NC.Open carry of S & W M & P .40

[surprise_i'm_armed]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=942972" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The above video was taken by a man open carrying near an abortion clinic.

The police officer demands ID and is given the runaround by the armed citizen.

It's surprising to me that the cop turns his back on the armed man.

Does anyone think that these open carry situations in public advance 2A
rights, or does it hurt 2A rights?

Concealed means concealed = You don't have to talk to any LEO's about your gun.

I'm just sayin....

SIA

[juggernaut]

Does anyone think that these open carry situations in public advance 2A
rights, or does it hurt 2A rights?

It's no different than interracial couples holding hands openly in public where that's legal.

[dicion]

This is another perfect example as to how everyone who's phone supports it should have installed, and setup a way to stream video to the internet to be recorded, in case the phone is confiscated/stolen/destroyed/etc.

Many phones support it, including the iPhone, if it's properly jail broken.
I won't go into the jail breaking stuff here, but if anyone wants more info, feel free to pm me about it.

Personally, I have mine setup via Qik: http://qik.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See if your phone is supported, and if so, take the 10 minutes to install and set it up. It's free, doesn't use ads or anything, and may prove invaluable someday.
If you're in the Houston area, I'd be more then willing to help anyone who may not be so 'tech-savvy' with this at the range some day

What if you're witnessing a robbery or some other violent crime where it is not a good idea to get involved, but you can help by being a good witness, so you bust out your phone and record what you can.
What if, during this, you are noticed, and the people commiting the crime take or destroy your phone thinking theyre destroying the evidence against them.
Wouldn't it be great to have that video recorded live online for your use later?

[Oldgringo]

Does anyone think that these open carry situations in public advance 2A
rights, or does it hurt 2A rights?

It's no different than interracial couples holding hands openly in public where that's legal.

I'm missing something here? What does anybody holding hands anywhere in public have to do with open carry of a firearm?

[dicion]

Does anyone think that these open carry situations in public advance 2A
rights, or does it hurt 2A rights?

It's no different than interracial couples holding hands openly in public where that's legal.

I'm missing something here? What does anybody holding hands anywhere in public have to do with open carry of a firearm?

They're both legal.

Lots of ignorant people object to both.

[dac1842]

First, I don't know what NC's laws are on open carry. So as a former LEO, this should have been handled a little differently in my opinion. Regardless of the law on open carry, the officer is responding to a call. He observes a person carrying a weapon. He asks for ID. In most states failure to identify to a LEO is a crime in itself. Since the subject was armed the officer has the right to determine if the weapon is being carried legally ( no known felon, etc).
I cant believe the officer backed off. He had reason to ask for ID. Of course there is some things we do not know. But on the surface the officer was intimidated by the camera and back down.

[C-dub]

Some LEO's recognize that sometimes citizens know more about a particular section of the law than they do and will try and avoid doing something they might regret. I totally agree that this officer probably backed down because of the camera, but also may have realized that since this guy was openly carrying he might have known more about the law regarding carrying and the requirement to provide identification. That's why I think he retreated to call a supervisor and why he failed to engage the guy again afterward. I think if there were a requirement to identify one's self he definitely would have returned and forced the issue or at least waited until back up arrived. Until the carrier asked for the officer's name the officer seemed to completely ignore him.

Other than not apologizing to the guy, recognizing that this person wasn't committing any crime I'm glad he sought the advice of his supervisor and did not make things worse. I think he did the best his ego would allow him to do at that time.

[dicion]

First, I don't know what NC's laws are on open carry. So as a former LEO, this should have been handled a little differently in my opinion. Regardless of the law on open carry, the officer is responding to a call. He observes a person carrying a weapon. He asks for ID. In most states failure to identify to a LEO is a crime in itself. Since the subject was armed the officer has the right to determine if the weapon is being carried legally ( no known felon, etc).
I cant believe the officer backed off. He had reason to ask for ID. Of course there is some things we do not know. But on the surface the officer was intimidated by the camera and back down.

He wasn't failing to identify, he was refusing to give ID. If I recall correctly, the laws there are similar to the laws in New Hampshire, the person is required to State his Name, and some other information, they are not required to produce any form of physical identification. As the guy in the video asks "Am I driving a motor vehicle?" so why should he have to produce his driver's license. At no point did the officer ask for his name, if he did, I'm pretty sure the man was required to give it to him. He probably knew the law on this, and was not going to volunteer it unless directly asked.

This is a similar video in New Hampshire, they actually detail the laws in the video, for the officers:

[youtube][/youtube]

Personally, I think Dave Himself is handling it fine. His friend in the striped shirt though may be going a little overboard in some cases.

[Oldgringo]

Does anyone think that these open carry situations in public advance 2A
rights, or does it hurt 2A rights?

It's no different than interracial couples holding hands openly in public where that's legal.

I'm missing something here? What does anybody holding hands anywhere in public have to do with open carry of a firearm?

They're both legal.

Lots of ignorant people object to both.

I see. I'm sure glad that I ain't ignorant.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

First, I don't know what NC's laws are on open carry. So as a former LEO, this should have been handled a little differently in my opinion. Regardless of the law on open carry, the officer is responding to a call. He observes a person carrying a weapon. He asks for ID. In most states failure to identify to a LEO is a crime in itself. Since the subject was armed the officer has the right to determine if the weapon is being carried legally ( no known felon, etc).
I cant believe the officer backed off. He had reason to ask for ID. Of course there is some things we do not know. But on the surface the officer was intimidated by the camera and back down.

If I am not mistaken a LEO must have a reason to ask you for ID (sees you committing a crime, you look like a suspect that is wanted in a crime etc.). They cannot just come up to you and ask for your Id just cause they want to. Or in this case Ocing a gun (As of 2009 in North Carolina OCing is unrestricted under state law except for certain events such as public parades).

If the LEO thought he was committing a crime he should have called back to his desk sgt and asked him/her to look up any laws that restrict the carrying of a firearm prior to engaging the individual.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

dicion:

Thanks for the New Hampster video.

When the striped shirt friend waved his arm real close to the Manchester cop's
face, I expected the LEO to take him down, but he didn't.

So the cops spent all that time jawing on the video, but nothing much came back from them
about the ID issue, or the open carry issue. The most directions the LEO's gave the group was
the "blocking the sidewalk" issue.

So in both the OP video from NC and the NH video, we have open carriers who play chicken
with the LEO's about showing ID. Maybe they are standing up for their rights, but I
certainly want to keep a low profile and don't want to take a ride down to the station in order
to prove any kind of point, or put my CHL at risk.

SIA

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

you can also tell by the NC LEOs body language at the end of the vid he knew he was wrong and there was nothing that he could do about it.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Another thought I had about the NC video is that the LEO's main purpose
for being in that location may have been to keep an eye on the people gathered around
the abortion clinic.

The open carry guy may have just been a distraction from the protesters/peacefully assembled
folks, so the LEO turned away.

What I want to know is this: the detectives came looking for the open carry man later.
Wonder what happened when they were able to question him in person?

SIA

[boomerang]

the officer is responding to a call

What call?

[USA1]

When the striped shirt friend waved his arm real close to the Manchester cop's
face, I expected the LEO to take him down, but he didn't.

same here .
if the camera wasn't rolling , the striped shirt fella would have been eating some asphalt .