FNH Five-seveN

[bdickens]

Definitely stick to something with a proven track record for carry.

[seadog]

Thanks guys,
That was a little more helpful. I think I will stick to the tried and true. It seams there would be too much of a chance of someone innocent getting hit in case, God forbid, I had to use it.

[srothstein]

Actually a 30% death rate is pretty high for gunshot wounds. From various sources I have seen on the web the death rate from handgunshot wounds ranges a little above 15% for wounds to the body and about 90% for wounds to the head. Shotgun and rifle wound have higher death rates, I have seen 67% for shotguns in one place. So the 30% death rate for Hasan's 5.7 is pretty significant.

Be very very careful when comparing death rates from various weapons. There are way too many variables that come into account. Police research on homicide rates indicate that one of the biggest reasons less people are being murdered each year is nothing to do with the crime rate or weapons. It is the medical attention the people receive and in what time frame. A proper ER or Ambulance/EMT's can save a life if they get to the person in the first "golden" hour. But in a mass shooting, unless you are in a major city, there will not be enough medical care to go around. If ten people get shot in San Antonio, there will be ten ambulances there, with a few firetrucks as helpers. But if ten people got shot in Luling, it takes fifteen minutes for the second ambulance to arrive from the next town over. I don't think we could get ten ambulances into Luling in a couple hours.

I don't know how many ambulances Ft. Hood and Killeen have, but many of the people were saved by first aid from friends/witnesses. This includes some drastic measures like tourniquets being applied. Based on this, I am not surprised the death rate was higher than average for pistol shootings, without the weapon being taken into account.

Given the one female soldier who ran back in to help more people before she realized she had even been shot (a through the body wound), I am even more convinced than ever that shot placement is going to be the key to any death rate, with medical care being the second factor.

[stroo]

srothstein,

I couldn't agree more. Most of the sites I reviewed were medical sites discussing the treatment of gunshot wounds and outcomes. They made the point that you made that the most important factor in the survival of wounds to the body were rapid medical treatment of the wounds. It may very well be that given the number of people shot at Fort Hood, that a few died because they did not get medical treatment quickly enough. That may have inflated the death rate some. On the other hand, from news accounts, it sounded like there were quite a few combat trained medics on site who immediately began treating the wounded. That may have saved some that would have otherwise been lost. In the end, who knows exactly what the death rate would have been if there had been 43 individual shootings rather than one mass shooting.

Nonetheless, I think my point stands. Handguns are not deathrays. And the death rate at Fort Hood from Hasan with the 5.7 was as high or than the general death rate today from handgun wounds. That doesn't mean the 5.7 is better than other handgun rounds in terms of stopping power but it does mean that the 5.7 is at least as effective at killing as other handgun rounds.

[QB]

Concerning ammo availability, I've never had problems ordering ammo for my PS90s. I get cases of 2000 rounds for a little over $700 shipped.

If you go to the FN Forum they have dedicated sections for the Five Seven as well as the ammo. I believe the ammo section has various threads with links to ballistics.

[Mike1951]

Yep. If you have an FFL or C&R license, Graf sells the SS195LF lead free for 706.05/2000 or SS197SR V-Max for 681.70/2000.

When I bought last, they paid the shipping. Have to inquire about that, if ordering.

I have a buddy with two pistols and a PS90 that I have to keep stocked.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Today I was checking out the ammo inventory at the Hickory Creek
(Denton County) Wal-Mart and got to talking with a man who was
waiting for the clerk.

He was associated with a Dallas area police department and said that
some of the officers wanted to carry some kind of .380's for BUG's but
because no one could ever find enough ammo, that had not happened.
Qualifying with the .380's would require more ammo than could be found.

I asked him what he carried and he said "A 5-7". That was surprising enough.
Then as we talked further about the 5.7 x 28 MM, he sweeps his outer jacket
aside, hits the mag release on his 5-7, and proceeds to show me how the double
stack mag looks.

He appeared to be a right handed guy with his 5-7 in a cross draw holster on his
left hip about 9 o'clock.

On the one hand, I appreciated that he trusted me enough to drop his mag for
a look-see, but on the other hand he failed to conceal when he swept his jacket
open, so that was kind of surprising!

SIA

[Purplehood]

It is very hard to say what a bullet will do. While I was in Iraq, as a contractor, I saw the medic bring in a solider who had been shot in the neck with a .223 round by a shooter from a rooftop. Somehow, the bullet tumbled and passed through his body, breaking his pelvis and exiting out his buttock. Poor guy had lost a lot of blood and was in terrible shape. The medics were all amazed by the bullet's path. That is the danger of a small, fast moving round. They seem to be much less predictable than a slow, heavy bullet.
The 5.7x28mm round was designed to travel very fast and penetrate light armor. I think both scenarios you mention could easily happen. If the bullet strikes a bone, it will likely tumble. If it just hits flesh, you could be looking at an over penetration problem. Standard self-defense hollow points are engineered to be predictable.
Another important consideration is that you can't legally by full power 5.7x28mm, which the pistol is designed to fire. You have to buy lower power "sporting" rounds. I don't know that your ballistics will be much better than a 9mm with the sporting rounds but I havn't seen the specs on those bullets.

I don't understand why the medics would be surprised. For years all I ever heard (in both the Marines and Army) was that 5.56mm rounds tumble and come out anywhere and everywhere. It was almost a mantra.

[ronbo83]

I purchased my FiveseveN a few years ago as a gun that will only ever be fired at the range and never carried. With this in mind, I cannot be happier with the gun as part of my collection. I normally carry a Glock 27 or a Kimber Officer model, so trying to conceal something this big would have been impossible for me.

As far as ammuniton, I agree with QB that it is readily available and for decent prices (for a rare caliber). I have had multiple orders of this round from Cabela's for less that $20 a box, with the most recent being 500 rounds 2 weeks ago.

I would be cautious of buying the gun right now too because I have seen the prices steadily increasing since last year. I saw one for as much as $1349 at a Houston dealer, even though they were around $900 when I bought mine. Who knows, maybe the Brady folks will get their wish and the gun will be banned.

[blu46and2]

You could be opening yourself up to lawsuits carrying that kind of weapon for self defense if you ever had to use it. The same way you would with a gun with hair trigger, armor piercing rounds, etc.

[Keith B]

You could be opening yourself up to lawsuits carrying that kind of weapon for self defense if you ever had to use it. The same way you would with a gun with hair trigger, armor piercing rounds, etc.

These are for the most part myths as there has never been any test cases to prove it. The only one I am aware of is the case in Arizona where the individual was carrying a 10mm and they found him guilty (can't remember the name). That was just a case of poor defense by his lawyers.

[blu46and2]

You could be opening yourself up to lawsuits carrying that kind of weapon for self defense if you ever had to use it. The same way you would with a gun with hair trigger, armor piercing rounds, etc.

These are for the most part myths as there has never been any test cases to prove it. The only one I am aware of is the case in Arizona where the individual was carrying a 10mm and they found him guilty (can't remember the name). That was just a case of poor defense by his lawyers.

Perhaps they are myths (and maybe you're willing to take that chance) but if you read enough Massad Ayoob then you'd know that he believes otherwise. Why take the chance. I carry a Glock 19 with Hydra-Shoks...that's 31 rounds of 9MM...if that's not enough to defend yourself you're not going to make it out of that situation, or to your rifle (first choice for self defense) alive anyway. I might have missed it but why would you want to carry a 5-7 for self defense anyway? Magazine capacity? Cool factor?

[TexasVet]

These are for the most part myths as there has never been any test cases to prove it. The only one I am aware of is the case in Arizona where the individual was carrying a 10mm and they found him guilty (can't remember the name). That was just a case of poor defense by his lawyers.[/quote]

Harold Fish.. I believe he had a re-trial recently (problems with the original judge I think(, though I did not follow up on the results.

[marksiwel]

These are for the most part myths as there has never been any test cases to prove it. The only one I am aware of is the case in Arizona where the individual was carrying a 10mm and they found him guilty (can't remember the name). That was just a case of poor defense by his lawyers.

Harold Fish.. I believe he had a re-trial recently (problems with the original judge I think(, though I did not follow up on the results.[/quote]

Basically in in Mr. Fishes case the state (Arizona) was going about Justice backwards. They had it as, Guilty until Proven innocent. The case was thrown out, but his life is still in ruins.
They were saying because he used a 10mm with Hallow Points he WANTED to kill someone and over reacted.

I was reading an article on the BBC about Gun Rights and how an old woman used a gun to shoot an intruder. One of the comments said something to the affect of "Why didnt she shoot a warning shot?" People are stupid when it comes to guns if they arent users themselves

[seadog]

You could be opening yourself up to lawsuits carrying that kind of weapon for self defense if you ever had to use it. The same way you would with a gun with hair trigger, armor piercing rounds, etc.

These are for the most part myths as there has never been any test cases to prove it. The only one I am aware of is the case in Arizona where the individual was carrying a 10mm and they found him guilty (can't remember the name). That was just a case of poor defense by his lawyers.

Perhaps they are myths (and maybe you're willing to take that chance) but if you read enough Massad Ayoob then you'd know that he believes otherwise. Why take the chance. I carry a Glock 19 with Hydra-Shoks...that's 31 rounds of 9MM...if that's not enough to defend yourself you're not going to make it out of that situation, or to your rifle (first choice for self defense) alive anyway. I might have missed it but why would you want to carry a 5-7 for self defense anyway? Magazine capacity? Cool factor?

Actually I was thinking about buying it not for me but for my better half. She is a lefty and really liked the feel of the Five-seveN. It is light, with little recoil and she really liked the location of the safety. I don’t think she really cares about cool factor. It was just one of her options for a Christmas gift. I ended up buying her a sub compact Sig P250 9mm
(This can be converted to other calibers). We took it to the range yesterday and it is a sweet shooter. We both love it, but of course it is her gift.