Ropin wrote:I don't think it hurts to have it on there; those of us who visit regularly know fairly well which posters are legal gurus and which posters are giving opinions without a legal background. However, it behooves us to remember that there are countless folks who pop in everyday from various search engine queries, and most of those folks know nothing about any of us.
The IANAL disclaimer is a fair way to warn folks who wouldn't know otherwise when an opinion is just an opinion, and should not be taken as firm advice/counsel. Especially when you consider that we're all trying to promote responsible gun ownership and carry...I'd hate to think that a lame-brained idea or suggestion I threw out one day (possibly even tongue-in-cheek) was taken to heart by someone who subsequently got in deep trouble for it...whether they try to sue me for it or not is irrelevant.
Abraham wrote:Is posting "I am not a lawyer" really necessary every time someone offers their opinion?
Are we all so afraid of litigation we need to post such a disclaimer ?
Am I the only one who finds this unnecessary?
Or, am I wrong and we should always post INAL to keep legal ramifications at bay?
Perhaps, if it is necessary we could start a sign up sheet stating we're not lawyers thus eliminating the need to post such disclaimers?
Opinions?
If you have ever been investigated for UPL, you would too.
It's in my signature because:
I'm retired from 25 years in a law office.
I was accepted to law school.
I took law school courses with law school textbooks taught by Law school professors at a law school.
I tutored quite a few people who are now lawyers.
I was given special dispensation to give jury arguments in Court "inside the bar" in certain cases.
I was a member of a division of the State Bar.
Many many years ago, I was once investigated for UPL, though that was cleared up in my favor. I always worked under the close supervision of an attorney and gave him the best I could when he asked me what to do. We won every appeal except one (about 20/estimated) and every Supreme Court case we paticipated in (about 5)
I do not want to be mistaken for an Attorney, I have relatives who are, and I can make lawyer jokes now that I couldn't if I was one.
That's my layman's opinion, not a legal opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it.
I learned the IANAL construct in real estate agent and Realtor training. As Realtors, we constantly deal with contracts and other legal documents but we must make VERY CLEAR VERY OFTEN that we are not attorneys and are not offering legal opinions. I tell my clients all the time that if they have questions beyond the scope of what I can and will tell them, that it is their option (one I strongly recommend they pursue) to seek legal counsel to further explain a legal concept relating to a real estate contract. To fail to do so can get us real estate agents and Realtors into a mess of hot water; everything from UPL to lawsuits by all parties involved in a transaction on grounds of "but you said ..." . When I first noticed others writing IANAL on the forum, it was just natural for me to continue the practice.
The only person on the forum that I know is a lawyer for sure
is Charles Cotton.
He opines in a thread from time to time on a legal issue.
But we must all keep in mind that even though he is the most
knowledgable CHL-savvy lawyer in the forum, everyone's individual case
has a variety of details that could affect how a presiding judge would
rule.
The discussions we have about fine points of Texas CHL law help us to
stay legal, and that's a good thing. Let's use some common sense too,
such as leaving your piece at home if you are going to drink any alcohol.
I'm not a lawyer, but I used to watch "Night Court".
Markie Post never returns my call, though. :-)
SIA
N. Texas LTC's hold 3 breakfasts each month. All are 800 AM. OC is fine.
2nd Saturdays: Rudy's BBQ, N. Dallas Pkwy, N.bound, N. of Main St., Frisco.
3rd Saturdays: Golden Corral, 465 E. I-20, Collins St exit, Arlington.
4th Saturdays: Sunny St. Cafe, off I-20, Exit 415, Mikus Rd, Willow Park.
If you state something is your - OPINION - why wouldn't that be adequate in and of itself?
Opinion defined: A personal belief or judgment that is not founded on proof or certainty
Here's a reason: We often discuss points of law here — often about a very serious subject, which is the use of lethal force — and in such a case, maybe it is not enough to declare that a given statement is just your opinion. Why? Because it may be necessary for reasons of personal liability to make the distinction that this is merely an opinion, and you are not practicing (pro bono) law without a license.
Of course, like most of the other members here, I am not a lawyer, so what do I know?
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
Alexander Solzhenitsyn stated something along the lines that "Western society is a litigious society..."
Many here seem to agree.
Should we ALL always offer our opinion with disclaiming boilerplate appended? You know, just in case...
Maybe we should, I don't know, but it seems like overkill and cause some (me for one) to do an eye roll.
Should we always make the same disclaimer in a casual conversation where you offer your opinion and make certain there are witnesses within earshot?
Is "Freedom of Speech" so degraded we must state such disclaimers in order to feel free?
Are we really that fearful?
Perhaps, there's a market for ball caps that state "I am not a lawyer" with a built in button that you can press every so often with a loud recording of same - you know, just to be safe.
Abraham wrote:Should we always make the same disclaimer in a casual conversation where you offer your opinion and make certain there are witnesses within earshot?
Abraham,
Of course not, but there is a crucial difference. Most of the people I meet face to face know me, and they already know that IANAL (sorry, I couldn't help myself). And, neither do I have the same kinds of conversations with them that I typically have on this website — not because I'm hiding what I post anonymously from those who know me, but because my FTF conversations tend to fall into the three categories of spiritual matters with church friends, business matters with clients and vendors, and personal matters with friends and family. No such disclaimer is necessary. But for "faceless" friends on the Internet who have never actually met — even friends who share PMs regularly and get along very well — one can't be absolutely certain of anything about the other person, except that one gets along with them. Consequently, perhaps a little extra caution is called for.
At this point, allow me to abuse another acronym (which I see a lot of)... YMMV. Sorry, the devil made me do it again...
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
Luggo1, that's funny austinrealtor, I can relate to the disclaimer in real estate too, I had been a real estate broker when the market went south in the 1970s, and a real estate attorney I knew that took 6 months off every year for vacation on his big boat told me he didn't care if the real estate market was good or bad, he adjusted his rates accordingly and I should go back to law school if I was tired of being "BROKER" LOL.
After over 40 years of disclaimers, (real estate Sales+Brokering and clerking and Legal Assistanting and law studenting) it's habit .... see my signature for further clarification. LOL
Markie Post never returns my call either, but I did get kissed by Joni Mitchell when I worked Security at the Dallas Convention Center after her concert in the 1970s, Bob Dylan witnessed it..I lost that job shortly thereafter because she ended up keeing my badge (she collects them).. it made the Dallas Newspaper and that's how the boss found out. I don't know what that has to do with "Night Court," other than it happened after dark and I could have sued or reported the wages deducted for the badge to the Labor Board. I just like telling people I got kissed by Joni.
I like chocolate too, especially with instant coffee crystals for sprinkles; that's my opinion.
I'm no lawyer
"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
I've known about the IANAL and IANYL acronyms for a while, but what in the world is the whole thing with Holiday Inn? I don't know that one.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016. NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
