Armed illegals brazenly crossing the border

[duns]

They're frustrated by the restrictions, soooo....they choose to break the law.

I'm really failing to follow your logic. Please explain your leaps.

I'm not condoning breaking the law just suggesting it's unenforceable. I think the government believes that too and as a result the fence will never be built in its entirety.

Ok, I'm starting to understand your positioning, and I think it's noble, but it almost seems as if you're in denial of the colossal chasm between idealism and reality. I certainly support a free-market system AND a free-trade system (with reasonable exceptions), but we have a system in place that MUST be obeyed before it can be restructured, otherwise the end result is what we have now -- more barriers, more protectionism, and more conflicts. Remember, WE are not inflicting anarchy on their system, it's quite the opposite. Until the laws are obeyed, you can be CERTAIN the laws will get worse (for those south of the border). Frankly, I know a LOT of Mexicans who are quite annoyed that this problem exists, because they work so hard to work within the system, and everybody else undermines their credibility (much like any gun owner gets villified whenever there is a mass shooting).

I think those who think that the problem can be solved with a long fence are denying reality. The real answer is to relax the controls to let in law-abiding foreign citizens. Then there will be just a trickle across the border of people who cannot get in any other way and they SHOULD be intercepted. Without hordes of people crossing, the job of the border patrol will be much easier and we won't have so much expense and there won't be so many people dying in the mountains and in the desert and in border shootings who are not criminals but just poor people in search of a better life. I quote Ronald Reagan:

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind-swept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace, a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and heart to get here.

[duns]

And mine stands - They don't put you in prison for civil matters. They do put you in prison for criminal matters.

That's speculation on your part. Let's wait till someone really knows.

Welcome to the U.S., by the way; and thank you for entering legally. But if you are here on a Green Card still, then you are still here as a guest. Please don't try to remake my country into something other than what it is supposed to be until you have the right to vote on these matters. It's kind of like being a guest in my home, and then rearranging the furniture without an invitation to do so.

Wow! Firstly, as a TX CHL holder, I am entitled to post in this forum irrespective of my immigration status. Secondly, as a Green Card holder I am here not as a "guest" but as a permanent resident. A guest usually means someone whose tenure is limited in time. A permanent resident has been given leave to live here permanently. I have all the rights of a US citizen except the right to vote. That is the one and only right I lack. YOU say I cannot express my opinions until I have the right to vote -- what gives YOU the right to make rules additional to those made by the US government?

[baldeagle]

Secondly, as a Green Card holder I am here not as a "guest" but as a permanent resident. A guest usually means someone whose tenure is limited in time. A permanent resident has been given leave to live here permanently. I have all the rights of a US citizen except the right to vote. That is the one and only right I lack. YOU say I cannot express my opinions until I have the right to vote -- what gives YOU the right to make rules additional to those made by the US government?

Not true. You can be deported. A citizen cannot.

As for your "pure speculation", the US Code reads - http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who
(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.
(c) Marriage fraud Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.
(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

Unless you have some novel reading methodology, the law clearly states that the penalties for illegally entering the US can be both civil and criminal. That fact alone puts illegally entering the US in a different category than speeding or other traffic offenses.

[The Annoyed Man]

And mine stands - They don't put you in prison for civil matters. They do put you in prison for criminal matters.

That's speculation on your part. Let's wait till someone really knows.

No. It is not. But, you don't have to accept that. I don't care one way or the other whether you do or not.

Welcome to the U.S., by the way; and thank you for entering legally. But if you are here on a Green Card still, then you are still here as a guest. Please don't try to remake my country into something other than what it is supposed to be until you have the right to vote on these matters. It's kind of like being a guest in my home, and then rearranging the furniture without an invitation to do so.

Wow! Firstly, I think as a TX CHL holder, I am entitled to post in this forum irrespective of my immigration status. Secondly, as a Green Card holder I am here not as a "guest" but as a permanent resident. A guest usually means someone whose tenure is limited in time. A permanent resident has been given leave to live here permanently. I have all the rights of a US citizen except the right to vote. That is the one and only right I lack. YOU say I cannot express my opinions until I have the right to vote -- what gives you the right to make rules additional to those made by the US government? What a cheek!

Please. Do not change my words. I didn't even mention the CHL forum. You seem to have a habit of misdirection in debate. There actually is another critical difference between your Green Card status and my Citizenship status. Your status can be revoked, and you can be deported. I cannot. I'm not stating that as some kind of a threat, and I am not trying to be arrogant, so please do not misdirect again. It's just a statement of fact. Nothing more. But, even though you may be a permanent resident, it does make you a guest of this country, which is different from being a citizen in more than just the right to vote. And before you misdirect again and accuse me of saying that you're not a welcome guest, I've already welcomed you. I meant that. I sincerely hope you remain, and that you do become a citizen. It would just be my desire that you do not hold U.S. citizenship too cheaply, so that it has no more meaning to you than being a permanent (but guest) resident. If citizenship is your goal and it is a cherished one, then I'm satisfied.

I have never said you had no right to an opinion, nor a right to state said opinion - even if I think it is an incorrect one. Talk about cheek! What I said was to please not try to change my country into something it was never intended to be until such time as you can vote in the matter. That is all I said, and all I meant.

[.45mac.40]

Coming to (sneaking into) America ??
How about bringing back one of the American jobs, with you... just saying !

Mac

[duns]

Not true. You can be deported. A citizen cannot.

What's not true?

[duns]

I have never said you had no right to an opinion, nor a right to state said opinion - even if I think it is an incorrect one. ...
What I said was to please not try to change my country into something it was never intended to be until such time as you can vote in the matter.

I'm confused. Can I express my opinion or not?

[williamkevin]

[The Annoyed Man]

Not true. You can be deported. A citizen cannot.

What's not true?

You said that there is only one difference between a permanent alien resident, and a citizen - the right to vote. That is wrong. There are at least two differences - the right to vote, and whether or not one can be deported. A resident alien, permanent or not, can be deported. A citizen cannot.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have never said you had no right to an opinion, nor a right to state said opinion - even if I think it is an incorrect one. ...
What I said was to please not try to change my country into something it was never intended to be until such time as you can vote in the matter.

I'm confused. Can I express my opinion or not?

Try reading.

[jester]

I would rather live here too, but China, India, USA, or pretty much any other part of the world, GDP has risen with population.

If that's true, the illegals are sabotaging the GDP of their home countries by leaving.

Going back to the OP, armed foreign nationals crossing a national border without permission is an invasion. The Germans did not "migrate" to Paris (70 years ago tomorrow) to answer your question at the top of page 3.

[Beiruty]

Cool it down folks. No harm is done. We Green card holders do not consider ourselves guests anymore. We jumped the hoops like crazy to secure that little card that stay in the safe called a Green Card. If we had intention to be guest we would be only working on a temp work visa. Heck, both my kids are born in US when both Mom and Dad where legal residents, I am sure my kids call US their homeland.

[Beiruty]

Not true. You can be deported. A citizen cannot.

What's not true?

You said that there is only one difference between a permanent alien resident, and a citizen - the right to vote. That is wrong. There are at least two differences - the right to vote, and whether or not one can be deported. A resident alien, permanent or not, can be deported. A citizen cannot.

Add to that, US passport, GC holders fly with a GC and their home country's Passport. Also, deportation for GC holder is possible after due process. Like if someone omitted a heinous crime and was under due process convicted with said crime.

[jester]

Cool it down folks. No harm is done. We Green card holders do not consider ourselves guests anymore. We jumped the hoops like crazy to secure that little card that stay in the safe called a Green Card. If we had intention to be guest we would be only working on a temp work visa. Heck, both my kids are born in US when both Mom and Dad where legal residents, I am sure my kids call US there homeland.

Absolutely. My mom had a green card when she met my dad.

The problem is the law breakers. Someone withdrawing their own money from a bank is legal. Someone illegally "withdrawing" money isn't.

[Beiruty]

As matter of principle, I am 100% against illegal immigration. Why in the world illegals immigrants "think" that they are a class above the law or want to be treated unfairly like the rest of us the legal immigrants.

It is the duty of the federal government to:
1) Secure the border, I mean 100% secure the border. It is a joke if US can't do that willingly or negligibly.
2) It is the right of the federal government to allow the immigration to what is best interest of the nation.

Thus, if US needs or wants low cost labor, US can instate temp work visa for migrant workers who would leave the country after their VISA expires. If said temp worker wants to become permanent, he may do so after living here for X year, where X can be stated in a law.

I guess we officially hijacked the thread. So, please move it to off topic.