Woman Requesting Help with Carry Choices

[CompVest]

The off the shelf purse I use does not in any way work less effectively than a holster purse so long as there is a dedicated compartment for the gun and it fits well. Whether the compartment is accessed by zipper or velcro I have not noticed any time difference. (I do notice that velcro is VERY noisy.) I can walk with my hand in my purse on my gun with either type of purse and draw just as fast or shoot through the purse just as well. I am not advocating sticking a gun in any purse any which way. I am saying that with careful thought and use of pocket holsters off the shelf purses can be used effectively. The only real difference between the two is the name and a holster is included in a dedicated compartment. I don't find there is enough variety of holster purses to accommodate my needs.

By telling what I do I am giving women a chance to think out of the box.

[Excaliber]

The off the shelf purse I use does not in any way work less effectively than a holster purse so long as there is a dedicated compartment for the gun and it fits well. Whether the compartment is accessed by zipper or velcro I have not noticed any time difference. (I do notice that velcro is VERY noisy.) I can walk with my hand in my purse on my gun with either type of purse and draw just as fast or shoot through the purse just as well. I am not advocating sticking a gun in any purse any which way. I am saying that with careful thought and use of pocket holsters off the shelf purses can be used effectively. The only real difference between the two is the name and a holster is included in a dedicated compartment. I don't find there is enough variety of holster purses to accommodate my needs.

By telling what I do I am giving women a chance to think out of the box.

This is all good.

I didn't mean to imply that an off the shelf purse won't work. My point was to raise a consideration I hadn't seen mentioned yet in this post.

My theory is: the more good info we make available, the better decision each woman can make for herself.

[CC Italian]

My better half went through the same thing recently. She has very tiny hands. Here is what I learned. Try all the handguns you can get your hands on. IT doesn't matter if it is a revolver or semi-auto. Everybody is different. Five rounds of .38 special usually solves most problems and if that’s not enough rounds in a revolver for you S&W has several that carry 6-8 rounds of .357 mag that can also chamber .38 special. Remember revolvers are simple to use and usually go bang every time.

As for the semi-auto it seems women are very fond of 1911s. My girl liked 1911s, Kahr K9 and S&W 908(which is what she ended up getting). The single stacks really help if you have small hands and the weight of a 1911 usually helps with recoil. She tried a Kahr P9 and liked the feel but she got to try one at the range and the recoil was to much for her. That’s when we realized she needed a heavier but small semi-auto. The Kahr K9 is around 25 ounces unload and was perfect in her hand. The S&W 908 weighs 24 ounces and fits her hand almost as well as the Kahr and it cost almost 50% less. So that’s what we were looking for. A single stack semi-auto that was dependable and cost less then 500 bucks. Just try everything.

[Yankee Girl]

ChattyKat and others - here's what I have so far in my spreadsheet. It is not complete, and I do plan to add a column for my comments once I've handled the guns in question, but it's a start. I was using my Sig P250 subcompact as my "baseline", because I know it pretty well, but there's nothing magic about any of this. Feel free to use, abuse, and modify it all you like.

[Abraham]

As for arthritic hands, mine too are beginning to give me problems. I cycle twenty-five miles every other day and lift weights on my non-cycling day. I'm constanly swinging a sledge hammer, digging holes, chain sawing, or wielding an ax and well, you get the picture. My hands take a pounding and now with a few years (ok, many...) under my belt, I'm paying the price...

During my last physical, I mentioned the chronic pain in my hands to my family doc and he put me on something called Meloxicam 7.5.

It's a one a day pill, some kind of NSAID and it works wonders for me. While the pain hasn't completely stopped, it's lessened dramatically.

Oh yeah, I formerly took over the counter Motrin and the like without nearly as good a result as this prescription stuff.

Perhaps, a visit to your doc may reap rewards for your hands.

[Embalmo]

The off the shelf purse I use does not in any way work less effectively than a holster purse so long as there is a dedicated compartment for the gun and it fits well. Whether the compartment is accessed by zipper or velcro I have not noticed any time difference. (I do notice that velcro is VERY noisy.) I can walk with my hand in my purse on my gun with either type of purse and draw just as fast or shoot through the purse just as well. I am not advocating sticking a gun in any purse any which way. I am saying that with careful thought and use of pocket holsters off the shelf purses can be used effectively. The only real difference between the two is the name and a holster is included in a dedicated compartment. I don't find there is enough variety of holster purses to accommodate my needs.

By telling what I do I am giving women a chance to think out of the box.

My wife purse carries when she has to (dedicated pistol purse with a zipper) and, through experimentation, she's found that a cross draw from the dominant right hand to a left shouldered purse works best for her. For her, a right hand draw from a right shouldered purse requires 2 hands (if done with any speed). She does switch shoulders and handles the gun if she's in an area that particularly scary.

The cool thing about a dedicated compartment is that it's hidden on those days when you hear, "Ma'am can you please open your purse?"

Embalmo

[ChattyKat]

She tried a Kahr P9 and liked the feel but she got to try one at the range and the recoil was to much for her. That’s when we realized she needed a heavier but small semi-auto. The Kahr K9 is around 25 ounces unload and was perfect in her hand. The S&W 908 weighs 24 ounces and fits her hand almost as well as the Kahr and it cost almost 50% less. So that’s what we were looking for. A single stack semi-auto that was dependable and cost less then 500 bucks. Just try everything

.
On Ladies' Day at the range I tried a Sig 239, Springfield XD, Kahr K9 and Taurus Millenium. Among these my experience was consistent with your wife's -- the Kahr K9 was the most comfortable. However, my husband was trying some 45s, and I also shot a Kimber 1911 full size and Kimber 1911 compact (pro). Excaliber was absolutely right about the 45's kick being softer or less "snappy." As several have suggested, I will try everything I can get my hands on (and am not in a hurry to make a decision).
-Kat

[ChattyKat]

here's what I have so far in my spreadsheet. It is not complete, and I do plan to add a column for my comments once I've handled the guns in question, but it's a start. I was using my Sig P250 subcompact as my "baseline", because I know it pretty well, but there's nothing magic about any of this. Feel free to use, abuse, and modify it all you like.

Yankee Girl -- thanks so much for attaching your spreadsheet. I appreciate you sharing the data you've collected; it's very helpful. There sure are multiple parameters and trade-offs to consider.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

ChattyKat:

Welcome to the forum and getting your CHL.
You have received a large number of opinions here from all
well-meaning folks with more experience at handgunnery.

I must compliment you on searching for the right carry gun in
an organized way. You have experienced shooting many more guns
than some forum members. I know YOUR perfect handgun is out
there somewhere.

austinrealtor and CCItalian:
I must beg to differ with you on even talking about .357 with
the OP's physical situation. .357 is powerful, but it beats up
the person's hand who shoots it.

After firing my Rossi with .357 Magnum on my most recent range
visit, my hands were aching after only 24 rounds (6 shot cylinder,
with 4 reloads). I continued to shoot .357 until my 50 rounds were
down range.

The next day I had trouble grasping objects with my strong hand.
.357 is definitely not anything the OP needs to consider. Heck,
I will only carry .38 Specials in it when using it as my BUG. Mostly
that's because it's my "truck gun" and would have to be fired within
my pickup's cabin, most likely one-handed, while seat-belted in.

Compvest: A S & W 9C has only a 5 pound trigger pull? That sounds
great if it's from the factory that way, and not an aftermarket
"trigger job" to reduce the pounds. My PT111's trigger pull is 7.0 lbs.

SIA

[Excaliber]

She tried a Kahr P9 and liked the feel but she got to try one at the range and the recoil was to much for her. That’s when we realized she needed a heavier but small semi-auto. The Kahr K9 is around 25 ounces unload and was perfect in her hand. The S&W 908 weighs 24 ounces and fits her hand almost as well as the Kahr and it cost almost 50% less. So that’s what we were looking for. A single stack semi-auto that was dependable and cost less then 500 bucks. Just try everything

.
On Ladies' Day at the range I tried a Sig 239, Springfield XD, Kahr K9 and Taurus Millenium. Among these my experience was consistent with your wife's -- the Kahr K9 was the most comfortable. However, my husband was trying some 45s, and I also shot a Kimber 1911 full size and Kimber 1911 compact (pro). Excaliber was absolutely right about the 45's kick being softer or less "snappy." As several have suggested, I will try everything I can get my hands on (and am not in a hurry to make a decision).

-Kat

ChattyKat and Yankee Girl,

I think you two are conducting the most organized and dispassionate pre purchasing exercises we've seen described on this Forum. An assessment spreadsheet is really impressive. I fully expect to see an RFP (Request for Proposal) next.

Most first time buyers just can't wait to turn all that heavy cash in their pockets into one of those nifty shiny pieces of hardware in the showcase. The salesman at the gun shop, who may be knowledgeable about technical details but not very good at helping someone select a gun that's right for him or her, is all too happy to help with that. He doesn't even mind wiping up after newbies who drool all over the counter as long as they part with lots their hard earned money, and he is well aware that many of them will be back to buy a different gun after they try out the first one. The purchaser sees a fascinating new toy. The seller sees dollar signs.

The overlooked but important negative individual selection issues usually aren't discovered until rounds are being launched downrange in a gun that is by that time wholly owned by the purchaser. That gun is then either sold at a considerable loss or becomes a safe queen. The end result is that a $600 carry gun ends up costing $1800 or so by the time a satisfactory purchase is made.

You two are setting a great example for all first time gun buyers. I have every confidence that both of you will end up with guns you'll be very happy with the first time, and I hope that lots of folks follow your lead.

The money saved by not buying guns that aren't a good fit will fund lots of training and practice.

[TLynnHughes]

She tried a Kahr P9 and liked the feel but she got to try one at the range and the recoil was to much for her. That’s when we realized she needed a heavier but small semi-auto. The Kahr K9 is around 25 ounces unload and was perfect in her hand. The S&W 908 weighs 24 ounces and fits her hand almost as well as the Kahr and it cost almost 50% less. So that’s what we were looking for. A single stack semi-auto that was dependable and cost less then 500 bucks. Just try everything

.
On Ladies' Day at the range I tried a Sig 239, Springfield XD, Kahr K9 and Taurus Millenium. Among these my experience was consistent with your wife's -- the Kahr K9 was the most comfortable. However, my husband was trying some 45s, and I also shot a Kimber 1911 full size and Kimber 1911 compact (pro). Excaliber was absolutely right about the 45's kick being softer or less "snappy." As several have suggested, I will try everything I can get my hands on (and am not in a hurry to make a decision).
-Kat

Comparing your experience to mine could be a textbook example of why there is no one gun that is perfect for every female. I was looking to buy a Kimber 1911. Fortunately williamkevin bought his first and we excitedly took it to the range. The Kimber would have been my fourth pistol so I knew a little about recoil (and I should say I REALLY wanted a 1911 because everyone talks about how wonderful the are). The Kimber was very uncomfortable for me to shoot. I really was disappointed. I prefer to shoot my little Taurus over the Kimber (I can hear the grumbling now. ). My favorite gun remains my H&K full size USP and my favorite for carry is my Glock 26. I haven't given up on the Kimber but know I'm going to have to try different grips and such to find the right formula for me.

T.

[Yankee Girl]

I think you two are conducting the most organized and dispassionate pre purchasing exercises we've seen described on this Forum. An assessment spreadsheet is really impressive. I fully expect to see an RFP (Request for Proposal) next.

It's the engineer in me, Excaliber ... yes, the next step ordinarily would be an RFP if I were buying services, or test driving if I were buying a car so in this case the next step is to go to some of the places that allow rentals/trials and put hands on and boolits through some of the likely candidates based on the specs.

[Hoi Polloi]

I think you two are conducting the most organized and dispassionate pre purchasing exercises we've seen described on this Forum. An assessment spreadsheet is really impressive. I fully expect to see an RFP (Request for Proposal) next.

It's the engineer in me, Excaliber ... yes, the next step ordinarily would be an RFP if I were buying services, or test driving if I were buying a car so in this case the next step is to go to some of the places that allow rentals/trials and put hands on and boolits through some of the likely candidates based on the specs.

Someone said my going about choosing the same way looked to him like "paralysis by analysis" (a phrase that still makes me chuckle!) You aren't the only one who approaches things that way. I suspect that most who would be that detailed would also be more likely to be lurkers, meaning we just hear from them less often.

[CC Italian]

surprise_i'm_armed: I think you misunderstood me. I am referring to a .357 mag in S&W because several models carry 6+ rounds in a snub nose. I personally would never carry .357 mag loads in a snub nose for carry. I like to be accurate past 10yards and it would take a lot of practice with a hot loaded .357 snub. Most .357 mag revolvers can also chamber the .38 special. If I carried a .357 I would probably load it with one of the hotter .38 special non +p rounds like Hornady or maybe a +p round. I would never recommend a snub nose with .357 loads to anybody who has physical limitations or myself. I regularly carry a Glock 20 10mm with hot loads and the recoil is nothing compared to a Ruger SP-101 .357 snub nose with hot loads in my experience.

[ChattyKat]

I think you two are conducting the most organized and dispassionate pre purchasing exercises we've seen described on this Forum. An assessment spreadsheet is really impressive. I fully expect to see an RFP (Request for Proposal) next.

It's the engineer in me, Excaliber ... yes, the next step ordinarily would be an RFP if I were buying services, or test driving if I were buying a car so in this case the next step is to go to some of the places that allow rentals/trials and put hands on and boolits through some of the likely candidates based on the specs.

W.r.t. Excaliber and Yankee Girl, what a coincidence [or not] that both of us are female engineers and into specs. Hoi Polloi, "paralysis by analysis" makes me chuckle, too. Some of us enjoy the “journey” more than others.

This morning I went with my husband to the gun store so he could buy some gun oil, and I ended up making a purchase myself, a used (of course) H&K P7M8. I was reading about 9 mms on a gun-focused forum and saw interesting stuff about the H&K P7. It turned out the store had one so I looked at it. The grip and balance felt really good, and I am thinking the unique squeeze cocker will work well with my hands. (It is not hard to squeeze.) As you said, Excaliber, I won’t discover the negative individual selection issues until rounds are being launched downrange in a gun that I now wholly own. But the risk is mitigated somewhat as my husband said he wants the gun if I don’t. Of course the "rubber meets the road” in the shooting – I’m waiting to try it Monday evening at the range (Ladies’ Day) and will let you know how it goes.