alpmc wrote:Liko81 wrote:* OC is, unequivocally, faster to draw from than CC. Period. CCers can argue all they want how pretty darn close they can get, but an unobstructed pistol at 3:00 OWB is always the benchmark. If it were faster to draw from concealment, you'd never see a gun because police officers would conceal all the time for performance reasons.
Absolutely false. Period.
Liko81 wrote:* OC is a visual deterrent. In addition to it being faster, police officers carry at 3:00 because that gun is, at all times, a signal that the officer can handle any situation.
OC is not a visual deterrent in most if not all situations. OC by the general public is still meant for personal protection. A criminal intent on committing a crime will do so whether an OC'er is present or not.....the OC'er will just become the first target/victim or he will wait till your gone.
Liko81 wrote:To those who state that OC would just get you shot first, I have two rebuttals: first, how was your daydream?
I'm one who claims that OC is the act of painting a target on your back and may cause you to become the recipient of unwarranted criminal attention that you would not get with a CC. Daydream? That's a bit harsh.
Liko81 wrote:When carrying, openly OR concealed, you should be in Col. Cooper's Condition Yellow at all times.
I agree.
Liko81 wrote:A person who was shot before they had a chance to draw got blindsided.
I agree. Which leads me to my next two points.
Liko81 wrote:Second, you can only get shot when the bad guy has a gun. An assailant with a baseball bat or a knife is going to take one look at you and find someone else to work over.
Not true! The gun your carrying is probably more valuable than anything a bad guy can get off someone else, not to mention that you may carry more cash because you believe you can defend it. The bad guy just presents himself in a non-threatening manner and approaches you without raising your heightened sense of awareness, then he bops you, stabs you, or just sucker punches you to La-La land and then he's the new proud owner of your OC'd weapon and other valuables.
Liko81 wrote:Guns are force equalizers; if you as a bad guy know I have a gun, even if you have a gun, you're going to want to point it at someone else.
Not true.....the bad guy knows you have a gun.....you don't know that he has a gun. Along with the above mentioned scenario, he has the absolute element of surprise. You lose the fight before it ever starts.
Your responses are basically the responses I was going to make. I'll add a few things to what you said already.
BGs almost always have the tactical advantage because: as you indicated, they're likely to launch a surprise attack, and also, because ambiguity and uncertainty work in their favor, they're not worried about where their rounds go, and they're not concerned with the legal consequences of their actions.
OC makes you more susceptible to false accusations from BG's, and from a host of other people, such as anti-gunners, who may claim you threatened them, for any number of reasons, from ideology to spite. BG's may be more likely to muddle a self-defense situation by claiming you threatened them first.
Your comments primarily address one-on-one scenarios, but an openly visible weapon may cause all sorts of problems in group scenarios, or situations that include multiple BGs. Obviously a visible weapon is going to make you a target, limit your response options, and at best, probably result in the theft of your gun. If you're among a group of people you may be given away by some foolish soul saying something like: "you've got a gun, do something."
You never know how other people are going to react to the knowledge that you're carrying a gun. They may make joking or inappropriate comments, such as "you better watch out or Bill might shoot you" (I've seen this happen when someone just knows that a person has a CHL). They may escalate or draw you into an altercation by reference to you being armed, such as telling someone they feel is threatening them, "you'd better be careful because my friend Bill over there has a gun."
When people on this forum ask "what would you do" or "what if" questions, or describe encounters they've had, you don't hear them saying that being able to draw their gun two seconds faster is the difference between a good and a bad outcome. In most encounters draw time is likely to be overshadowed by ambiguity and uncertainty, along with a host of other factors. And when you can't draw at a particular moment you may be able to choose a different moment when your gun is hidden --not so likely when it's visible.
Finally, I'm of average build and I have no problem concealing a full size semi-auto, like a Beretta, year round (with a snubbie BUG at times as well). Like most here I'm not against OC for others, though I'm not likely to practice it myself. I'm against having my CC restricted for OC because I see near zero benefit to OC.
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
From the WeaponsMan blog, weaponsman.com
It just seems that I got distracted and left out what I was going to say to your post 
