Beretta sells out the gun community

[ddstuder]

Take away the military contracts and start giving them back to Colt!
Keep the money home, and give the boys 1911's!

[steveincowtown]

To the OP, were you actually able to speak with Mr. Cook at Beretta? Did he confirm this happened?

I am not doubting this happened, but just looking for something beyond a letter, from a guy, who said, that they did...etc.

I also didn't now the there was a Freedom of Information Act in Italy. I know they do have open records, but it seems odd that an Italian would use terminology that sounds much more like what an American would say.

"After this, the Italian shooters association, FISAT, filed a freedom of information act and, after obtaining a copy of the papers of the meeting, discovered that the Commission decision to ban AR15 guns had been taken unanimously, including the vote of Beretta, Benelli, Tanfoglio and Pedersoli Firearms representatives together with the representative of the gun shops association, which obviously is controlled by Beretta."

I tried to find more info on the web and found nothing at all. Don't take it as a challenge to your post, take it as a guy looking for more info.

[The Annoyed Man]

Here's the document (in Italian):

http://tinyurl.com/5v9funo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Near as I can tell, the document translates as: "I eata da pasta anna my reda car go veddy fass. You wanna soom chianti?".......or am I reading that wrong?

[G26ster]

Here's the document (in Italian):

http://tinyurl.com/5v9funo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Near as I can tell, the document translates as: "I eata da pasta anna my reda car go veddy fass. You wanna soom chianti?".......or am I reading that wrong?

Some guy named Nunzio, with a crooked nose, will be at your door later today. Don't answer the door!

[Tallinthesaddle]

And the US government is probably still buying M9's, that doesn't help.

[terryg]

Here's the document (in Italian):

http://tinyurl.com/5v9funo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Near as I can tell, the document translates as: "I eata da pasta anna my reda car go veddy fass. You wanna soom chianti?".......or am I reading that wrong?

Some guy named Nunzio, with a crooked nose, will be at your door later today. Don't answer the door!

[terryg]

The PDF was a scan, so I ran it through Adobe's OCR and then fed the results into Google translator and here is the result:

Code: Select all

Ittt
D11 '. \ KTI "II: FLAT': II \ PL'lSlll. LC. \ ~ The U'IU '. II \
EXTRACT OF MINUTES OF MEETING No 2 of 23 and 24 March 2011
Dr. Licciardello, as President for the Central Advisory Commission dell1
Arms control, first, expresses its appreciation to all members
the assembly, just recently reconstituted and, aware of the undoubted professionalism. ~ a
each, deliver its best wishes for bllollit / / Ioro.
CIA said, noting the need of a quorum of the components of
College attendance list of names which is part of this integtante verbal,
otes to 9:40, open declaration. ~ the session.
It is noted that the meeting took part in the State Police Dr. VQAgg.to
Mario Gagliardi Dr. Pier Francesco Iovino and Mr.. G.M. Albert Bassano present in quality
of mere listeners.
II Ptesidente before proeedere alia close examination of the individual issues listed
Order of Giotllo speeificatamente points, places of assembly evaluation alia, some
issues relating to the classification procedure, for which I and, with his alb 1I0ia reserved person,
and that is an integral part of these minutes (Annex 1), I'Dfficio for Administration
General, requesting the Board of this wall.
In partieolare, in reference to mandatory requirements of certainty of the procedure
administrative and, as a priority, order and public safety, the first point of criticality
scgnalato peaks, on the need fornirc in VL. 'l dcfinitiva a indicazionc tccmca in tuera
alI'esatta JlJiJllm procedure: (Joll 'dc / / a / llIIgbc' (! (in the / a Cal/lIl1 of IlIIa/7ml. The feel of neeessita
reach a certain, unambiguous metric, c particobre tense, to dispel doubts
interpretation that, frequently, in recent times, have given rise exponentially in
numerous instances aimed at "'Iiji", because of this.
CIA site, the President, reading the suggested solution can dall'Dfficio.
The forum, alI'unanimita, after extensive discussion, agrees with observations made Ie
by CoL and Dr. Rice. Pedetsoli, where the head is no mention of the types of divetse
delI'asta rigid metal material, as a tool required for an accurate cffettuare
measurement operation, offering cash and, consequently, also omit the term
Umetallica "mentioned in it as well, also agreed, about} 'opportunity to specify that 13
lnisurazionc cane dcbba avvcnirc "scuza aaCSJOIlo".
In the view of the assembly, in fact, the presence of a fteno of mouth and / or flash suppressors made
inclusive Aila cane, in accordance alia prescrizionc sets this Dicastcro cia by
a / c / / premium or Pili / Ii know / daillra, pili vohe has in the past, even in type rifen.mento alia
the same structure, highlighted by an objective difficulty. ~ At the verification tecniea
performed on the prototype weapon.
DII '. \) (TI ~ ient IWI.I .. \ Pl'1313UC \ SICL) (I · JI. \
It is understood, therefore, as mentioned above, which I and the timely operations concementi
nUsurazione of .. length of the barrel of a weapon Equip. ~ of these accessories in order to avoid
etronee approximations must be done conveniently without them.
n dr. Pedersoli in ptoposito, Ie for weapons equipped with muzzle brake''on / oll / oNibile'', believes
that, being with General, in reference to the specific requirement that the Office has determined about
indeed, the compulsory nature of that "dismissal" and, in particular, the close correlation to
issue in question, now can not be postponed any more as soon as the need to review eli
I'efficacia and even the sense of the tax t. ~.
According to him, in fact, suffice it to recall that, from a purely technical, the
concept of "dismissal" is not adhering to the absolute requirement that the Ministry
of 'nci Intema imposes its decrees Cat. ~ approval where it is stated that "... iIfrel / or
BOL "ct tleve essential jisslllo adesitJO foil (: ganllllisf h (l (J Jell / n 11 110 1500 perallfnl tli: sislcll" ll / I / cct: emic slfperion! til
70% of "mislcl /'(!/ oj! ERLO afivddo ... '~
If fact, the dismissal of an accessory to a percentage Ereference parzL the ~, and if, as
technically takes place, the muzzle brake eapplicato the barrel at a later time, then purged
true that there is a possibility that the same will be removed.
ln fact, only an accessory to the whole can. ~ can definitely be considered
immovable, unlike 10 ealquanto controversial concept of dismissal and, therefore, and
also discuss any requirement to do so.
n President, acknowledging Dr. Ie observations. Pedersoli ntiene now
the need can not be postponed. ~ to arrive as soon as possible, in general, to a reformulation
of the criteria, especially in light of the recent reconstitution of the Board.
lnfine, the assembly unanimously believes is obviously not applicable to the above criteria
nUsurazione of the category of weapons rot.uione (TV / JOII / cry states that the timely
technical statement in this case should be to follow riportat. ~: "You mean
length of the barrel of the revolver i1 stretch inside the plane through the measured dill live i1
volala ill of the plane through the base of the conn [i1 orzamento thus excluding
talTIburo ".
Point 2)
nPresidente, explains to members of the Commission reported the observation eli criticality
ffice by U when ill) requires the itnportatore / vllijit-(/ / v the length of the barrel of a gun
indicated in the catalog for an alleged error of nUsurazione. Pert. ~ Nt, itwita the assembly in
confornUta As requested, to reassess the procedural course, given that Eli did, the
amendment deletes itself the length originally specified in the catalog, exposing or inducing
verosimihnente, in a third position for the illegal possession of a weapon considered
lawful origin.
there! College, after much discussion, agreed to join sull'opportwuta notwithstanding the criterion
adopted unanimously, the meeting of February 10, 2010, for which do not fit
Ie equipment known in the interchangeable barrels eli eliversa length of the weapon from that recorded in
Catalog, the procedure proposed by the Office.
COIIJlJ, the ". <IOlIt COIJ.mllirti (. J/11iIIr ~. · Fh" the COlllrol / or ddlt '/' / m:;
ptr kjiw: The jolla "OlIJu! them,, 1 'iJllI / fllm' to the IInJl;
2
DII '. \ RTI "II: APARTMENT 1) 1 ·: 1.1 .. \ Pl'Il11UC \ SICL'IU" uncles. \
It is therefore rltlene share, for the logic inherent in the same, whether for
much longer guaranteed, according to which the proposed solution, limited to cases
particular, the procedure can be adopted in addition DEIL ~ 11010 ~ Cat logo in providing for the possibilitit
that the weapon is equipped with a rod of different lengths so you go to oggillllgcre to that already.: '
previously indicated, provided that such a procedure, only to be worth today
the previous.
About AI, held in place on predetermined criteria concemente I'esatra procedure
Measurement of the barrel of a year, and noted that the correction requests totalitit
received from importers of setrore, i decided conviction, Mr.. Pedersoli
Col. and Mr. Rice. Angeletti that they too, should be expected of a I'obbligatoriera
prior verification of the length of the barrel of the prototype of a year by the Tour
National Proof of Gardone V.T. Only talc body for, in fact, can certify, in
unequivocally, I'esatta dimensional correspondence. This would be obbligatorietit,
of course, for Ie weapons for the Convention ELP. bear down., 'which bear the hallmarks of
other approved bank, but that the Convention does not perform this operation.
Only such a provision, sought by the majority of the Board, in fact, to exclude
this point, the spread of the need to necessira fonnulazione requests '~ allolond' to
half rdlifica 0 IIO / tl.
This, above all in consideration, that today's operators to proceed '
impose dell'arrna including private entities, Neil ~ most cases, a fonnulano
registration application in the catalog without Avemar L ~ materi.lle availability.: ', necessary for Ie
appropriate dimensional and mechanical testing, noting the same Ie ~ NEIL most
cases, merely on the basis of a commercial caraloghi even through telephone contacts with
foreign manufacturer at no charge responsabilitit.
Dit is to note that the Director of the Arms are 10.15 CD Explosives Dr. Maria
Paravati prearranged commitments related to other things because its function and leaves the seat in lieu of
succeeds Dr. Mario Gagliardi.
Point 3)
With regard to point 3 of this document concerning "years eli
derivaziane military "the President shall give a preliminary reading in their entirety
expressed by the proposal. II assembly, unanimously.: ', As far as I and years
war "demilitarized"'s Operating Civil agree on the strict and scrupulous observance of
Ie all operations provided by the circular of 2002.
Step 4)
(IUIJIII, IJ; COJl.mfliJ''O''': The p / mil! P.' r if coil / full "I '/ h',, '/ rlJli
pa 1c '. Fille:; / QlJi l1H1mlli "The' on / II / fllm · to the dl1JI;
I ~ the 3 r / Jl / / ': tlc / / a. RfflHla rid 23 1 / / (/ 1 1 20 II ":;.(
PCR as conceme, invcce, alia problem of point 4 on weapons allc CHC
are. .romig mln / ïthe! queue tnilitari ia) RNA that come cia produzionc a line of "civilian", the
Assembly, after extensive and thorough examination, whether to include convicnc na
construct head aleuni adempirncnti c prccisazioni tecnichc esscnziali considered.
In particolarc, therefore, for this type of weapon, the manufacturer or I'importatore,
aua first application for registration in the Library, is to submit at the Tour
National Proof of Gardone V. Trompia (bull) together with the prototype deU'arma
project, considered essenzialc punrualc for comparison, the inherent elisegni tecnid listed
re1ativi the box and his shot eli Ie components whose shares have elimensionali
be eli inEeriori those weapons for military use. II applicant also will have to produce
rcsponsabilita under penalty of their mendacity, a statement signed dada
showing that the 'weapon that intends to import produce and designed exclusively 0
Civil indicating it tecoid gil measures adopted in order not to allow the eli
eli interchangeability of the box shooting 0 of its components with those of a weapon
war that allow automatic operation.
Finally, it is agreed about the opportunities that shippers of that type of weapon,
should contain only 5 cartridges costmzione be non-interchangeable
with the military and their attachment points to be Elive.
Step 5)
You pass the point 5 dd all'csamc document in which the Office in order to prcm.inentc tutda
c sicurczza dcll'ordine the public, the Commission invites the first to want to pay significant reflection and
provide appropriate va1utazione about those weapons which, although in a related field
sports, using gauges with bolts: the lI / a Potel / if 'wings / en ~ ffellsi1Ja.
In this regard, the Board, noted by Mr. Galeazzi dell'UITS that, as attualc,
within the structures of the polygons of this Sport Federation affiliated to the eons in
accordance with the provisions of the Pole Polygons Technique Dircttiva Army Corps of Engineers, c
praticabilc in national and exclusive, only one shot activity that, in the relazionc
caliber, kinetic energy expressed in TENNIN inizia1e alia mouth a value of 3931.60 joules.
In this regard, the Prcsidcnte, in view of the problem and comp1essita
diverse opinions, decided to form a sub-group you plan an analytical
metodo10gia proceedings by which strike the Ie needs.
How cmcrso, appears to be very difficult to establish a yardstick tecmco reference
tcrmini in offensiveness of the above which, potcr victarc, ovvcro below, potcr allow.
Nell'argomcnto, in fact, engage in complex I and dissertations tecmche mo1to which
Above all, the ones emerge, whether it should be the reference potential of the cartridge only alia,
ovvcro the binomial mumzionamento weapon-0, rather, limited to the effects of ballistic termina1e.
The results of our sottoconunissione 'log. Averna, from 'lng. Girl, by V. Q. Update.
of P. S. Gagliardi, by Dr. Boffi, by. Galeazzi and Mr. Bassano.
... Omission ...
C (~ JIIIIIII fJiOIlI'COJ / m / liro C'Illra / t '! Ie,. The COJl / ml / ddf or. / / 171 / 1
/ '11 '"H'j; IJI ~;:! Rllli coJl.mlt; I'I' ill IlJllh'n;! R / s firm;
4 1'1'1 "11 (//:: tid / a. Rallllll rid J! JII /":;.( 23 J 2011
DII '. \ Wlnjj ·: APARTMENT 1) 1' .1.1 .. \ PL'BBLlC \ Sln; IU ~ Zz. \
... orrussis ...
II Giomo of 24 months of 11 / (1, -0, noted the quorum necessary for
Components of the College, as listed attendance notninativo costiruisce part
of these minutes, the President, aile 09:40 hours, opened the session.
It is noted that the meeting took part in the VQAgg.to alia Police. ~ State Dr. Mario
Gagliardi, Dr.. And Mr. Iovino. G.M. Albert Bassano in Qualitative present of mere hearers
It proml all'esalJle dell'argolJlel / to OA. DG of fIIi
Processing of applications eli eli classiflcazione cataloging and common weapons
Ie shot and check for air weapons conformitil 0 compressed gas
capacitil modest offensive (IETT A, B, C, D, E, F and G)
Replace II. Com of P. S. Massimo Fiorentini qualitil in the Deputy Secretary of
owner by act of disposal of the President, Maj. Cal / dial / proceeds, as an alternate
to report on practices aile assigned to Col. Rice.
[G Lettcra: Relatorc CoI.Co.Jl (g BW (gl / or Rug
We pass Pel1 {/ / lto to / 'CStlllle of pmtiebe of fIIi alia lettml G.
... Omission ...
For the practice to the point it is a replica of 2.Gl rifle H & K mod. G41e
Although I'istante represents a 'weapon is already recorded in the same Cat'tlogo, the rapporteur
feeling of having to apply the principle, already shared by the assembly, during assembly, the afferent
Ie t / nlli DeLillo:;} or / and lJIilitaTe, expresses no opinion favorable. In this regard, the applicant will have
already comply with the forms and methods. ~ discussed and decided at the meeting. In particular,
dovci submitted at the B.N.P. Gardone VT. (AB), the prototype of 'weapon, to the end of
effettuame comparison and verification that the project engineer is to submit well in that case
alia, a declaration of responsibility together with his signature on the non-
TRANSFORMABILITY of the weapon in automatic mode. The Comrnissione approves.
For practical Ie CLAL 2.G2 point to point 2.Gll Ie requests for examination, since
replicas of rifles AR 15, with kicks. ~ ing fixed telescopic 0, .223 caliber Retnington
that is, except for the practice to the point 2.G9, in caliber .308 Winchester, and configures itself
of military derivation her, even if only for the "outward form" the rapporteur, similarly to the point that
above, expresses no opinion in favor, with plans to meet the same alia
prescription given to the point that mecedl;. II assembly unanimously, so decides to
suspend discussion of the practices.
... Omission ...
CmJIIJIi.u; OIIt '("(JIIJu / tim G'II / m / I'fa i / dl COlllrolio' / It 'I' InN;
pc '"h'j; III! \! OI /; (OII, IFI! lil' / 'rli illlllaMia drill;
The 5 'to / NI! C: the oft'rllI / a rid 2) 11 / (/ 1 0':;.. 2U I

Bottom line is, I think TAM is right.

[steveincowtown]

So what is the real deal? Did this really happen or is this akin to the email about gas stations that went out after 9/11?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/saudigas.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is this just a feeble attempt to make a few companies look bad?

[PvilleStang]

Benelli, too?!? I do love my Nova, but man, that's no bueno. Thankful I never bought a Beretta!

[solaritx]

The open letter that is linked to my first post is from a Italian that has worked very hard on pro-gun issues in Italy. I know this person well and would take his word to the bank.

The link if from Gary Burris who has been working very closely with IDPA and Italy. He has his ear to the ground not only in the general Italy-gun issues but also for IAPCAR. I would take his word to the bank as well (as anybody that knows Gary would do)

For me, if these two upstanding individuals cry "fire", then I would make a call to 911. But that is just me. You can do as you wish.....just hope you don't get burned.

Garry Newton

[steveincowtown]

For me, if these two upstanding individuals cry "fire", then I would make a call to 911. But that is just me. You can do as you wish.....just hope you don't get burned.

Garry Newton

I agree, like I said before, I am just trying to locate the actual "fire." I cannot find anything, anywhere the corroborates any of this. I am not doubting it, just trying to find out more about it for myself. IMHO if I just choose to "follow and react with the pack" without zero research on my part then that is really BAAAA.....D (<--horrible sheep pun). Would you happen to know the name of the Italian enthusiast that wrote this? Maybe this could help. Also, did you actually talk to Mr. Cook, and did he confirm or deny any of the allegations?

[steveincowtown]

Try here - Google translation from Italian (you may have to scroll down to the translated section).

Original link in Italian: http://www.campagnafisat.it

Thanks Andy. I think I may be more confused than informed now. I will have to read this early in the morning when my eyes won't cross so easy.