Can't Defend Against 'Gators and Snakes?

[Excaliber]

Just follow the 3 S's: Shoot, Shovel & Shut up!

If you are in a situation where you can't keep it under wraps (like in a neighborhood), defend yourself and you daughter first, then worry about upsetting the neighbors as a distant second.

There have been a few instances where I almost drew with dogs charging straight at me and my daughter, and owners not around. I would not have hesitated to defend us but after reading this thread, start wondering about the consequences afterward. When an unleashed big dog starts gnarling at you at close range, is it justified to put it down? Waiting till the biting starts would be too late in many cases.

A stream type OC (hot pepper) projector is a much better place to start for these situations and works pretty well on most dogs.

There's no permanent damage, no noise, and way fewer legal issues than there are with firearms.

Dogs are quick learners and will give you wide berth once they get a face full of that stuff.

[speedsix]

...oddly enough, Vernon's statutes says you can defend domestic animals against dog or coyote attack with no consequences....does not give humans the right to defend humans against the same...that's something that needs changed...

[speedsix]

Just follow the 3 S's: Shoot, Shovel & Shut up!

If you are in a situation where you can't keep it under wraps (like in a neighborhood), defend yourself and you daughter first, then worry about upsetting the neighbors as a distant second.

There have been a few instances where I almost drew with dogs charging straight at me and my daughter, and owners not around. I would not have hesitated to defend us but after reading this thread, start wondering about the consequences afterward. When an unleashed big dog starts gnarling at you at close range, is it justified to put it down? Waiting till the biting starts would be too late in many cases.

A stream type OC (hot pepper) projector is a much better place to start for these situations and works pretty well on most dogs.

There's no permanent damage, no noise, and way fewer legal issues than there are with firearms.

Dogs are quick learners and will give you wide berth once they get a face full of that stuff.

...the news and dog bite sites and pit bull sites are full of stories where pepper spray, mace, tear gas had little or no effect on dogs...I'd have to strongly disagree with that advice...I would NEVER use any of the three in a life-or-death situation involving people OR dogs...the results are just too erratic...for both critters...

[Excaliber]

Just follow the 3 S's: Shoot, Shovel & Shut up!

If you are in a situation where you can't keep it under wraps (like in a neighborhood), defend yourself and you daughter first, then worry about upsetting the neighbors as a distant second.

There have been a few instances where I almost drew with dogs charging straight at me and my daughter, and owners not around. I would not have hesitated to defend us but after reading this thread, start wondering about the consequences afterward. When an unleashed big dog starts gnarling at you at close range, is it justified to put it down? Waiting till the biting starts would be too late in many cases.

A stream type OC (hot pepper) projector is a much better place to start for these situations and works pretty well on most dogs.

There's no permanent damage, no noise, and way fewer legal issues than there are with firearms.

Dogs are quick learners and will give you wide berth once they get a face full of that stuff.

...the news and dog bite sites and pit bull sites are full of stories where pepper spray, mace, tear gas had little or no effect on dogs...I'd have to strongly disagree with that advice...I would NEVER use any of the three in a life-or-death situation involving people OR dogs...the results are just too erratic...for both critters...

I wouldn't recommend OC in a clear life or death situation or during an active attack either for exactly the reason you stated - it doesn't always work, and under actual attack you can't afford to play percentages. I would also agree that Mace and tear gas are irritants that flat out don't work on dogs, but OC is an inflammatory agent that comes in varying concentrations. While not 100% effective, has been shown to discourage attack by dogs and even bears due to the effects it has on eyes and breathing passages. IMHO the stronger mixes work often enough and well enough to be kept on my option list.

I think OC has a viable place as an option between nothing and a firearm as a viable tool for discouraging final approach by apparently aggressive dogs during the pre attack stage such as the one described by rubiconjp. The animals described in that case never did in fact attack and use of a firearm would likely have been found inappropriate by investigators who always have the advantage of hindsight.

YMMV

[speedsix]

...I carry a stout stick for any situation that hasn't justified the use of a gun...if I wanted a spray, I'd grab my son's AXE deoderant...that stuff's got pepper spray beat hands down...

[Excaliber]

...I carry a stout stick for any situation that hasn't justified the use of a gun...if I wanted a spray, I'd grab my son's AXE deoderant...that stuff's got pepper spray beat hands down...

+1 on the stick.

It never gets empty, you don't have to worry about wind direction or cross contamination, and, when wielded with skill and enthusiasm, it always makes an impression.

I don't know about that AXE stuff though - I think you have to wear a hazmat placard to carry it around.

[speedsix]

...wouldn't doubt it...makes the old Right Guard smell great by comparison...
...back to the OC...under Texas law...just how strong and what size are citizens allowed to carry??? haven't found it nailed down in the laws...

[Excaliber]

...wouldn't doubt it...makes the old Right Guard smell great by comparison...
...back to the OC...under Texas law...just how strong and what size are citizens allowed to carry??? haven't found it nailed down in the laws...

46.05(a) of the Texas Penal Code says:

A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs or sells:
......
(8) a chemical dispensing device.....

The offense is a 3rd degree felony.

Section 46.01 defines a chemical dispensing device:

(14) "Chemical Dispensing Device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiologogical effect on a human being.

This part of the law does not clearly define what separates a "small" chemical dispenser from one that is not small, and does not speak to active agent concentration.

I found a 2003 Court of Appeals case in the 14th district called Spradley v State that held that a can of 10% OC is for law enforcement only, and small cans of 2% - 3% OC that are half the size of the one in that case are sold for civilian use. The case summary I read did not further define the container sizes, so I don't know what that means in inches or ounces.

I wasn't able to find anything that shed more light on this, but would be glad to hear from anyone who can provide more detail.

Keep in mind that I am not a lawyer. This info is for discussion only and should not be viewed as legal advice.

[speedsix]

...thanks for the lookup...I've only found the statute and "small" in Texas might mean a lot different than other places...or not...I'd also heard as rumor that the heavier concentrations were restricted...one of many things in Tx law which need clarifyin'....appreciate your help...

[apostate]

one of many things in Tx law which need clarifyin'

I think it would be far better to repeal it than to clarify it.

[speedsix]

...I'd vote for that!!!

[Excaliber]

Another option would be to OK the higher concentration / larger canister for CHL holders who take the same qualification course for it as LEO's and commissioned security officers.

I can vouch for the fact that the 10% stuff is nasty from first hand experience on the receiving end.

[rustycase]

To be honest if it's fast has lots of teeth or fangs and it's within a few feet there will be shots fired. I think my defense in shooting it would be the screams heard miles away. I let all spiders walk away but them critters....scared to death of them.

@ screams heard miles away! I don't mind reptiles. Been catching a lot of snakes
Here latley. Would love to see a gator out in the wild. They caught one her in waco
Not long ago.

[sookandy]

What can I say...I'd be screaming like a school girl or blasting away with a judge. Probably both. there is no running and screaming smiley so I guess...

[rustycase]

lol. Idk if you ate a big person or not but I got a visual....