cocked and locked?

[txinvestigator]

startin to sound to like me some of yall have been takein to many gun classes, an need to start takein self defense classes. im a big guy an i hardly think im just gonna stand there an LET someone stab me, or knock me in the head. 80% sure i can end the sittuation, without useing deadly force! NEXT!

Lots of dead people thought that. Seriously, I don't care who you are or how "tough" you think you are, you go one-on-one with a knife armed dude and your gonna get cut, badly. I have training in 3 martial arts, and hold a blackbelt in TKD and I won't go hand to knife unless I am otherwise unarmed and cannot run away.

[ru934]

do me a favor an go ahead an delete my account

[txinvestigator]

do me a favor an go ahead an delete my account

[img]

[sparx]

Until I address their own concerns, which I believe were given out of love, I'll continue to carry my Bersa, as it has a decocker.

Regarding autoloaders, when carrying one of my 1911's, it's C&L. When carrying my Glock 19, well, it's a Glock so one's in the chamber. When carrying my Bersa .380 CC, since the first shot is DA and has such a long pull, I actually don't even keep the manual safety on. I decock the gun with the manual safety (by putting it on), take the safety back off, then pull back the hammer just slightly to initiate the hammer-bar safety block (similar to the half-cock on some newer 1911's).

Besides, the manual safety on my Bersa, even after working and working it, is still a little too tough for me to feel comfortable with it in being able to flip it off in the heat of the moment (should one come along). Some may not feel comfortable with that unless they've played around with a Bersa, but since the trigger-pull needs to be quite deliberate, I feel quite safe with carrying it that way.

[casselthief]

dunt dunt dunt, another one bites the dust....

srsly, the key here, is that if someone hits you from behind, you didn't have time to rack the slide, and a multiplicity of other scenarios that involve you being caught off guard.
I as well, am proficient with several martial arts. I ain't relying on my BruceLee when somebody's trying to end me, though!!

[G.C.Montgomery]

It has been fun watching this debate. There is no insult intended here but it seems RU934 doesn't know what he doesn't know and has little or no interest in resolving that deficiency. The fact that he said there is no training that will heal his skittishness about C&L carry says he's already made up his mind and there is no need to confuse him with the facts.

For the record, I carry my 1911's C&L as per design specifications. I had an ND at my very first IPSC match while trying to run a 1911 hammer down on a live primer so I will go to my grave preaching against that practice. Condition 3 or transport mode carry isn't recommended but I can certainly understand the attraction.

As someone who has had the distasteful experience of violent encounters I think those who believe that they will have time to rack a slide in a worst case encounter are dreaming. While statistically speaking, you'll only need to fire once in the next thirty times you draw your weapon to engage someone, it's that one time that counts. If you are wrong, you are dead wrong. While the probability may be low, the risks of being wrong are too high for my blood. YMMV.

[Charles L. Cotton]

At RU934's request, I have deactivated his registration. I must admit that I do not understand why he was offended by any of the posts and comments on this thread. As I read the comments, they were offered in the spirit of trying to reassure him that "cocked & locked" is proper and safe for a 1911, that "condition 3" can be dangerous/deadly in an attack where our reaction must be instantaneous, but that in the end he must decide his own state of readiness based upon his comfort level.

To me, the responses showed sincere concern, not a lack of respect for his decision. I'm sorry he viewed it differently.

I believe this thread is of value to others who are either new to CHL or who may be considering carrying a 1911 for the first time, so it will not be locked. Since RU934 will not be around to respond to any additional posts, let's not make any references directly to him, only to the subject matter.

Chas.

[RPBrown]

I to felt uncomfortable C&l when I got my 1st 1911. But the longer I carried it the better I felt about it. Looking back now I see it really is no different than with my Glock or XD and 1 in the pipe.
After all, thats how they all were intended to be carried.

[tsteven1]

As just mentioned by Charles, I, as a fairly new CHL, read all with interest. I read Venus and sparx especially, because I haven't yet gotten a 1911, but do have a Bersa 380. I am familiar with the 'half cock' equivalent position that sparx mentioned, and will begin using that. I am comfortable with a round chambered in my Bersa, and the double action of the first shot, but was not aware, and assume, that this 'half-cock' equivalent prevents a hammer strike on the round by bumping the back end of the hammer.
I have to say that I feel better carrying my Taurus 85 revolver. I think that before I get a 1911, I'll get a 45 revolver. I can take my renewal test, when that comes, with my Bersa.
Is a DA/SA revolver then safe against hammer strike if the hammer is jarred from behind?

[Cosmo 9]

I bought an XD for my first carry piece not because cocked & locked bothered me but because I didn't trust myself in high stress situation to remember to sweep the safety off.

I know now that training will take care of that.

[Venus Pax]

I've got a question for the 1911 gurus:

If a 1911 is dropped, is there an internal device to keep the hammer from hitting the slide's end (I forgot the proper term for that part)?

[TX Rancher]

I've got a question for the 1911 gurus:

If a 1911 is dropped, is there an internal device to keep the hammer from hitting the slide's end (I forgot the proper term for that part)?

Venus:

I believe it depends on the manufacturer and when it was manufactured. Some have drop safeties that stop the firing pin from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled. So dropping the weapon won’t accidentally discharge the gun, whether the hammer hit it or not. Some don’t, and the sudden stop when the weapon hits the ground can carry the firing pin forward, impact the primer, and fire the round.

RPBrown:

I think I respectfully disagree with you . I believe a 1911 cocked & locked is actually safer then systems like the Glock . Now before anyone grabs the rope and starts looking for a good hanging tree, I like Glocks and XD’s, and carry both.

But while holstering, if something (jacket zipper, shirt tail, etc.) gets inside the trigger guard of a Glock style pistol, it could go boom when you press it into the holster. This has happened several times. The 1911 won’t care and won’t go boom.

I don’t worry excessively about this, but I am very careful when I re-holster my Glocks/XD not to get hung up in my cover garment.

[TX Rancher]

[quote="txinvestigator"][/quote]

Lots of dead people thought that. Seriously, I don't care who you are or how "tough" you think you are, you go one-on-one with a knife armed dude and your gonna get cut, badly. I have training in 3 martial arts, and hold a blackbelt in TKD and I won't go hand to knife unless I am otherwise unarmed and cannot run away.

Sounds like an intelligent attitude to me. After all, how do you know the guy with the knife isn’t well trained!

[flintknapper]

Lots of dead people thought that. Seriously, I don't care who you are or how "tough" you think you are, you go one-on-one with a knife armed dude and your gonna get cut, badly. I have training in 3 martial arts, and hold a blackbelt in TKD and I won't go hand to knife unless I am otherwise unarmed and cannot run away.

Sounds like an intelligent attitude to me. After all, how do you know the guy with the knife isn’t well trained!

+1

Under the best of circumstances, knife is hard to defend against. Even someone untrained (but committed) is likely to cut you. Take a person marginally trained, and you get what TX said " you're gonna get cut".

Move it up a notch to "well trained", and basically you're gonna cut three ways: LONG, DEEP, and OFTEN.

Empty hands against knife (unless there is no escape) is foolish. Even if your opponent isn't very skilled, all he has to be is "lucky".. to slip that blade past you once.

[jbirds1210]

+1

Under the best of circumstances, knife is hard to defend against. Even someone untrained (but committed) is likely to cut you. Take a person marginally trained, and you get what TX said " you're gonna get cut".

In an air conditioned dojo that was to say the least "secure" from any outside enemy with my friends there, I was relaxed, concentrating, and knew what was coming and the blade made contact on most every occasion. I know it is said to the point of being cliche, but I would MUCH rather have someone with a gun attacking me than I would with a knife. A person's hands are just so much faster than a human reaction to them.

I believe that the common misconception when people feel that their weapon can be racked is that the fight is going to have a warning and some distance that will supply time. From the little bit that I witnessed...a skilled person with a knife will close that distance before the threat is even known and erase any chance of someone offering resistance.