Purchasing a firearm on Gunbroker.com

[Salomander]

Quick question. I am interested in purchasing a firearm on gunbroker.com for myself, the thing is that I want to use a credit card to purchase it. My credit card does not have the available funds to purchase the firearm in its full amount. Is it possible to use someone else's credit card (wife's) to pay for it on gunbroker.com but when I go to the FFL to pick it up, I fill out the form? I will be the actual owner of the fire arm. At my local gun store, I was told, it is ok as long as she is present during the purchase, but the rifle I want is selling for 350 dollars less on gunbroker.com brand new, and I rather buy it online and pick it up at a FFL. I want to be sure that it isn't considered a straw purchase or anything like that.

Thanks in advance.

[Beiruty]

never risk it. I would say the rifle can wait to have enough funds in your cc.

[mrvmax]

Message the dealer on Gunbroker and ask, there should not be a problem. Using your wife's credit card is not considered a straw purchase (by ATF regs), the only issue is with the merchant and their policies. Some dealers do not know the rules and may not let this go through although there is no reason it should not.

[OldCannon]

It's not a straw purchase. You're the "buyer", you're the person filling out the 4473, you're not completing the process on behalf of another person.

This is a fuzzy area for folks, but let's look at it another way - not everybody has a credit card (scary, but true :), but it represents a safe way to make online purchases. There is nothing illegal about you providing cash to somebody to order the firearm using their credit card. They're just a proxy for the _purchase_. You, however, are the actual buyer, and are the one taking possession of the firearm. The background check will be done for you, you "swear out" the form, it's your signature on the 4473.

The key factor behind a straw purchase is that a firearm is acquired by a proxy, then immediately falls into possession of somebody who is not legally permitted to own a firearm.

Now, if you wife was on parole for armed robbery from a couple years ago, saw a great gun on GunBroker and purchased it, then had you go to the dealer and fill out the 4473 (because she wouldn't pass the background check) - THAT would be a straw purchase.

[Salomander]

Thanks for the response, I will be contacting the seller and ask if its ok to do it before bidding to avoid any billing issues.

[03Lightningrocks]

Yep... Perfectly legal. I have sold firearms on gunbroker and had people pay with two different cards from two different people. The FFL on my end and the other end never asked me how the person paid or how much they paid. They only wanted to know who the person was I was legally transferring my firearm to. The FFL on the receiving end has only the responsibility of doing the proper paperwork on the person having the weapon transferred into their name.

In a different situation, for instance standing at a gun store with a person and trying to buy a weapon in my name and then having the person I am standing with hand them a credit card, the merchant may perceive this as us trying to pull a quick one and refuse to sell. They are not required by law to do this. I get the impression they have a responsibility of refusing a sale if they suspect a straw purchase but there is a lot of room for interpretation here. P.S. don't try this at bullet trap in Plano. They will refuse to sell if you even smell like a straw purchase. They are overly zealous in their interpretation of the rules.

[Jumping Frog]

Most gunbroker dealers charge 3% for credit card. In those cases, pay via USPS money order.

If there is no additional charge for credit card, I would still pay via USPS money order, since the USPS will investigate mail fraud.

If you really want to use the credit card system, take your cash to Walmart and fund a pre-paid debit card.

If you are actually having to incur debt to purchase this firearm, I would counsel not purchasing now and instead save your money and pay cash in the future.

I put my first purchased firearm on a credit card in 1978. However, I have always paid cash for the firearms purchased since then. By "cash", I am including debit cards, as they come straight out of the bank account. In others words, they do not increase my debts.

[OldCannon]

Most gunbroker dealers charge 3% for credit card. In those cases, pay via USPS money order.

Interesting fact: In Texas, it is ILLEGAL to charge a higher amount for a product if you use a credit card. This sucks, because it can take a huge chunk of what amounts to a very small profit margin (contrary to popular perception, the gun business isn't a high profit biz). Seller's can avoid this by stating that their prices reflect a "cash sale" price, although that's a grey area. The reality is that sellers "mark up" _all_ their items to adjust for the merchant fees they get hit with, so, technically, you're paying more if you use cash - it's just all buried in the "operating margin" on prices (another reason why these "internet only" sellers can offer firearms at far lower prices).

[TexasCajun]

Most gunbroker dealers charge 3% for credit card. In those cases, pay via USPS money order.

Interesting fact: In Texas, it is ILLEGAL to charge a higher amount for a product if you use a credit card. This sucks, because it can take a huge chunk of what amounts to a very small profit margin (contrary to popular perception, the gun business isn't a high profit biz). Seller's can avoid this by stating that their prices reflect a "cash sale" price, although that's a grey area. The reality is that sellers "mark up" _all_ their items to adjust for the merchant fees they get hit with, so, technically, you're paying more if you use cash - it's just all buried in the "operating margin" on prices (another reason why these "internet only" sellers can offer firearms at far lower prices).

When I've dealt with either the LGS or merchants at gun shows, they usually tag their "price" and offer a cash/debit card discount.

And I totally agree with the post above about waiting until you can get the rifle without going into debt. If it's a good deal now, it will be a good (or better) deal later. The best bet is to make the purchase using a credit card (for the customary buyer protection features) and then immediately send an equal payment to the credit card to avoid/minimize the added interest.

[jester]

If you are actually having to incur debt to purchase this firearm, I would counsel not purchasing now and instead save your money and pay cash in the future.

If you need the gun to feed your family or defend them from an imminent threat, do what you need to do. Otherwise, I agree with Jumping Frog. No matter how fun the toy, it's a bad idea to go into debt for toys.

[puma guy]

As others have stated there should be no problem. I took my son-in-law to GT Dist in Austin and he got a Glock 22. I paid with my credit card and he still got the LEO/FF discount.

[03Lightningrocks]

Most gunbroker dealers charge 3% for credit card. In those cases, pay via USPS money order.

Interesting fact: In Texas, it is ILLEGAL to charge a higher amount for a product if you use a credit card. This sucks, because it can take a huge chunk of what amounts to a very small profit margin (contrary to popular perception, the gun business isn't a high profit biz). Seller's can avoid this by stating that their prices reflect a "cash sale" price, although that's a grey area. The reality is that sellers "mark up" _all_ their items to adjust for the merchant fees they get hit with, so, technically, you're paying more if you use cash - it's just all buried in the "operating margin" on prices (another reason why these "internet only" sellers can offer firearms at far lower prices).

Actually, offering a cash discount for paying cash is not a gray area. Perfectly legitimate and does not void the agreement with the credit card processors.

On another note... The fees merchants pay can vary greatly depending on the service used and the type of business. We pay just under two percent for swiped transactions and pay an extra quarter percent for manual entry. American excess charges us just over three percent. They are thieves! Discover is even worse and can burn for all I care. We don't take that card!

[mrvmax]

Most gunbroker dealers charge 3% for credit card. In those cases, pay via USPS money order.

Interesting fact: In Texas, it is ILLEGAL to charge a higher amount for a product if you use a credit card. This sucks, because it can take a huge chunk of what amounts to a very small profit margin (contrary to popular perception, the gun business isn't a high profit biz). Seller's can avoid this by stating that their prices reflect a "cash sale" price, although that's a grey area. The reality is that sellers "mark up" _all_ their items to adjust for the merchant fees they get hit with, so, technically, you're paying more if you use cash - it's just all buried in the "operating margin" on prices (another reason why these "internet only" sellers can offer firearms at far lower prices).

Actually, offering a cash discount for paying cash is not a gray area. Perfectly legitimate and does not void the agreement with the credit card processors.

On another note... The fees merchants pay can vary greatly depending on the service used and the type of business. We pay just under two percent for swiped transactions and pay an extra quarter percent for manual entry. American excess charges us just over three percent. They are thieves! Discover is even worse and can burn for all I care. We don't take that card!

I gets worse when you sell guns, many processors will not allow gun sales so cc merchants are limited. When you are small the extra 3-3.5% is a big hit, when you are big the fees are added in and averaged out.

[mrvmax]

Most gunbroker dealers charge 3% for credit card. In those cases, pay via USPS money order.

If there is no additional charge for credit card, I would still pay via USPS money order, since the USPS will investigate mail fraud.

If you really want to use the credit card system, take your cash to Walmart and fund a pre-paid debit card.

If you are actually having to incur debt to purchase this firearm, I would counsel not purchasing now and instead save your money and pay cash in the future.

I put my first purchased firearm on a credit card in 1978. However, I have always paid cash for the firearms purchased since then. By "cash", I am including debit cards, as they come straight out of the bank account. In others words, they do not increase my debts.

I agree but I use the credit cards to my advantage. So far I have made over $1000 by using credit cards (I get new cards and cash in on their bonus offers, last year I got 75000 bonus points from Amex which at that time equaled $750 in Amex gift checks) for purchases I would have paid in cash anyway. I pay off my cards every month but redeem all the points I can.

[Jumping Frog]

I pay off my cards every month but redeem all the points I can.

Well, I agree that someone who has the discipline to pay their cards off every month is an exception to the general principle. Most people who use credit to fund purchases end up paying for them for years and huge amounts of interest.