Trade gun across state lines

[Wes]

A bill of sale does not cut it for cross state pistol sales, to be legal it MUST go through an ffl in the state of the purchaser.

[C-dub]

The whole thing is a sham.

Yes, it is legally a felony to transfer a pistol across state lines without an FFL. But...

But it's one of those "crimes" that happens with regular frequency, with no victims, no property damage, no ill effects. Any two states with vibrant firearms cultures sharing a border will have hundreds, if not thousands, of "unconvicted criminals" along that border. Gun show walkers who decide to swap rifles, high school friends that buy a shotgun to help out in tough times (and then sell it back when the money's there again), family members selling and giving firearms back and forth.

Felonies.

It's long, long past time to get rid of all this nonsense. All this does is put honest people's freedoms and futures in jeopardy, and gives LE yet another endless stack of regulations they're supposed to enforce, without any rhyme or reason for the enforcement other than "It's the law."

Long guns are legal to trade or sell state-to-state, just not handguns. Silly rule for sure.

Interesting, I thought long guns were also illegal to transfer from state to state without an FFL. I know the laws changed on this a little for Texas a little while back, but I thought that had to do with states that are not border states with Texas. For example, I still thought it was illegal for my dad, in Kansas, to give me any of his guns (rifles included) without the transfer being done through an FFL. Did I misunderstand? Again?

[OldCannon]

Thanks for your opinions everybody... that's why I asked in the first place. Lawyer tells me if I didn't know the guy with the gun was from another state and he represents himself as a Texas resident (as in temporarily assigned here by the military) we can trade and walk away it's not my business what he does next or his business what I do next.

The ATF could care less what your lawyer says and the arrest and trial alone will crush you financially even if innocent, that's how the federal government works. In fact, you WILL be found guilty of something, and you WILL lose your right to ever own a weapon again. Go read "Three Felonies A Day." That is one scary book! (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00505UZ4G/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

The FFL question was just in there to distract you. A Texas FFL can transfer his gun to me, but has to send my gun to another FFL in the new owner's state. It appears to be optional for FFL's as to whether they will receive a gun from an individual or require that it be shipped to them by another FFL (as in gun dealer) Some will, some will not.

Let's clarify "a gun," please. A non-licensee CANNOT ship a HANDGUN across state lines to an FFL - it is a felony. An FFL that accepts such a shipment can be charged with a felony as well. Some FFLs refuse to accept out-of-state shipments of long guns (rifles/shotguns) from private individuals. It's overly-paranoid, but it's not my job to tell them how to run their business (and you couldn't pay me enough for such a job). It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a gun to an FFL out of state (or to themselves to an address in another state).

[G26ster]

These two sentences seem to contradict each other.

A non-licensee CANNOT ship a HANDGUN across state lines to an FFL - it is a felony. An FFL that accepts such a shipment can be charged with a felony as well.

It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a gun to an FFL out of state (or to themselves to an address in another state).

Here is a quote from Gunbroker's shipping info page:

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

[jmra]

These two sentences seem to contradict each other.

A non-licensee CANNOT ship a HANDGUN across state lines to an FFL - it is a felony. An FFL that accepts such a shipment can be charged with a felony as well.

It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a gun to an FFL out of state (or to themselves to an address in another state).

Here is a quote from Gunbroker's shipping info page:

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

Difference is handgun vs. long gun.

[G26ster]

These two sentences seem to contradict each other.

A non-licensee CANNOT ship a HANDGUN across state lines to an FFL - it is a felony. An FFL that accepts such a shipment can be charged with a felony as well.

It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a gun to an FFL out of state (or to themselves to an address in another state).

Here is a quote from Gunbroker's shipping info page:

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

Difference is handgun vs. long gun.

According to the quote from the ATF Guide for "non-licensees" I posted, it indicates no difference, and specifically says a common carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[jmra]

These two sentences seem to contradict each other.

A non-licensee CANNOT ship a HANDGUN across state lines to an FFL - it is a felony. An FFL that accepts such a shipment can be charged with a felony as well.

It is perfectly legal for a non-licensee to ship a gun to an FFL out of state (or to themselves to an address in another state).

Here is a quote from Gunbroker's shipping info page:

Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

Difference is handgun vs. long gun.

According to the quote from the ATF Guide for "non-licensees" I posted, it indicates no difference, and specifically says a common carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

Don't have time, but if you look in the definitions section I'm sure it will clear things up.

[OldCannon]

According to the quote from the ATF Guide for "non-licensees" I posted, it indicates no difference, and specifically says a common carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

Far be it from me, a licensed Class III FFL, to know squat about ATF regs.

All sarcasm aside, you neglected to go to the very next paragraph in the GunBroker FAQ (listed here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Suppor ... faqid=1118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), so here it is:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

[G26ster]

According to the quote from the ATF Guide for "non-licensees" I posted, it indicates no difference, and specifically says a common carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

Far be it from me, a licensed Class III FFL, to know squat about ATF regs.

All sarcasm aside, you neglected to go to the very next paragraph in the GunBroker FAQ (listed here: http://www.gunbroker.com/Support/Suppor ... faqid=1118" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), so here it is:

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

OldCannon, no disrespect intended. I am aware of the postal regs, but did not see USPS mentioned in your post, or if you had said "mail" instead of "ship" I would not have posted.

[OldCannon]

OldCannon, no disrespect intended. I am aware of the postal regs, but did not see USPS mentioned in your post, or if you had said "mail" instead of "ship" I would not have posted.

I didn't take it that way, it's all good The biggest concern I have is somebody misunderstanding this thread and getting themselves in VERY hot water.

[03Lightningrocks]

Hmmm... I understand the laws concerning transferring a firearm across state lines. What I am curious about is if the rules are different for family? Say for instance, a person living in Texas gave a shotgun, rifle or pistol as a gift to a brother, offspring or parent living in another state, while visiting said Texan?

[Keith B]

Hmmm... I understand the laws concerning transferring a firearm across state lines. What I am curious about is if the rules are different for family? Say for instance, a person living in Texas gave a shotgun, rifle or pistol as a gift to a brother, offspring or parent living in another state, while visiting said Texan?

I don't believe here is a legal exception for gifting, family or not.

[03Lightningrocks]

Hmmm... I understand the laws concerning transferring a firearm across state lines. What I am curious about is if the rules are different for family? Say for instance, a person living in Texas gave a shotgun, rifle or pistol as a gift to a brother, offspring or parent living in another state, while visiting said Texan?

I don't believe here is a legal exception for gifting, family or not.

Well thank goodness I don't know anyone who did that! It does seem off that a parent or offspring cannot simply gift a firearm to each other. I suppose if a parent passed while living in a different state, it would be a paperwork nightmare getting any inherited firearms across state lines.

[Keith B]

Well thank goodness I don't know anyone who did that! It does seem off that a parent or offspring cannot simply gift a firearm to each other. I suppose if a parent passed while living in a different state, it would be a paperwork nightmare getting any inherited firearms across state lines.

Well, here's a good example of how it would potentially be hard to tell. I had a gun that was gifted to me by my father-in-law before I moved out of state. I left it in his safe and just brought it back with me a couple of years ago. Even though I have lived in Texas 15 years, it was still my gun so I had the right to it. However, if they would try and track it back to the original owner, it would be him and would be hard to prove he had gifted it to me before I moved.

Personally, I think the BATF will have a lot better things to try and prosecute than a gift of a firearm from one family member to another, no matter what states they live in.

[nightmare69]

I heard that out of state resident cannot buy a handgun in Louisiana. Is this true? This meaning I cannot buy and handgun from bass pro shop?