How can I generate static electricity?

[Charles L. Cotton]

I haven't cast bullets in 20 years, but I'm going to do it again on a rather large scale with some buddies. That's the only way to keep up the quantity we need.

Cast bullets don't work for action pistol competition because of the smoke. (Plus they are a pain for reloading, especially with progressive presses.) I've researched alternatives to various lubes and it looks like powder coating is something we are going to try. We have no interest in spraying, so we'll use either "tumble coating" or "shake & bake" methods. Again, because of the volume we need, I want to develop a way to tumble several hundred to a few thousand at one time.

The only way the non-spray procedures work is by generating static electricity that causes the powder stick to the bullets. Hand tumbling using #5 plastic tubs works very well, but this is way too slow/small. I'm thinking something like a 5 gal. paint bucket turning on a tumbler base like a large Tumler's Tumbler, but that bucket probably won't generate enough static electricity. Adding black Airsoft BB's helps the process for a number of reasons, but I need a way to generate more static electricity with the bucket.

Does anyone have any ideas? (I know AndyC knows where I've been reading.)

Chas.

[kenobi]

Maybe this will give some ideas. http://scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/elec ... ctro6.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jimlongley]

You can purchase pretty inexpensive Van de Graff generators.

[Charles L. Cotton]

line-X a cement mixer?

Ive never done electrostatic powder coating, so absolute zero 1st hand knowledge BUT - I have used quite a bit of the bayou bullet coating and get phenomenal results. No smoke, no leading, no problems- even in some rifle applications where a gas check should have been used, but I developed a lazy streak in the name of 'research'.

If the powder coating doesn't work, then Hi Tek coating like Bayou Bullet uses will be Plan B. It works great, but you have to coat twice and bake twice. Powder coating is one coat and one bake. The bake time is a little bit shorter with powder coating as well. I'm looking into copper plating also, but while it looked good initially, I'm leaning against it.

Chas.

[LTUME1978]

Charles,

I got a lot of smoke with regular cast bullets when I was using Titegroup powder and switched to the Bayou Bullets because of that for the IDPA matches. A friend recommended WST for the 45 with regular cast bullets and the smoke was significantly less (acceptable for outdoor matches, still use plated bullets for indoor matches). You can get the coating that Bayou Bullet uses from them and they will send you the instructions on how to apply the coating if that is of interest. You will need to bake it on in an oven. I tried to talk Friendswood Bullets into doing this but they declined. Have you had a chance to try the sample of the 230 grain Bayou Bullets that I gave you last year?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Charles,

I got a lot of smoke with regular cast bullets when I was using Titegroup powder and switched to the Bayou Bullets because of that for the IDPA matches. A friend recommended WST for the 45 with regular cast bullets and the smoke was significantly less (acceptable for outdoor matches, still use plated bullets for indoor matches). You can get the coating that Bayou Bullet uses from them and they will send you the instructions on how to apply the coating if that is of interest. You will need to bake it on in an oven. I tried to talk Friendswood Bullets into doing this but they declined. Have you had a chance to try the sample of the 230 grain Bayou Bullets that I gave you last year?

I have used them and they are great. I've read all of the posts on Hi Tek on the CastBoolits website and that will be the route we go, if we can't make powder coating work. The biggest drawback is having to coat twice and bake twice.

Chas.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Does anyone have any ideas? (I know AndyC knows where I've been reading.)

I'd like to hear about this too - I like the idea of the benefits of coated bullets, but the process is far too slow; anything that speeds it up would make it more practical.

I'll post our experiments in the Reloading section. I found a #5 plastic (PP) 5 gal. bucket and even a 55 gal. drum, but the drum would be way too heavy. I'm going to build a tumbler for it and give that a try. Since it's PP, it may generate enough static electricity without an outside source, especially with the Airsoft BBs.

Chas.

[Keith B]

Why does this topic title make me think of Charles doing this?

[video][/video]

[Charles L. Cotton]

The option of the Van de Graaf would get you all the potential you need.

You generate static forces by physically rubbing electrons off of one material onto another. That is how the Van de Graaf works.

If you are going to make a 5 gallon roller, then you just have to try several different "wipers" on the bucket. I would start with a piece of carpet first. Just allow it to lay across the bucket, so it makes contact. Probably would be best to have a ground wire to the carpet.

I have gathered the materials to begin the same process, sans the mass production scale you are proposing.

I thought you gave away all of your casting stuff 10 years ago.

I thought about the carpet wiper also and that would be easy to implement. I'm not sure how to use a Van de Graff generator and have the static charge in the 5 gallon bucket. The ones I've seen have a spark gap of no more than an one or two inches. Perhaps the lid for the bucket would have a lip that could be used to roll inside the spark gap, but that would require precise control of the bucket placement.

I gave away (actually an long-term lend) my casting equipment, but the guys with quit casting or decided not to do it. However, I plan to build something like the old Ballisti-Cast Mark II, or perhaps a Mark X except it would be motorized, so the gear I have now will probably be used for a relatively short time. We'll use a Star Lube/Sizer with an autofeed and it too will be motorized. (It's a good thing my buddy is good at designing equipment!)

If you're interested, search http://castboolits.gunloads.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for posts by JMorris and look at some of the equipment he designed and built. It's absolutely amazing what he has done.

Chas.

[WildBill]

I am new to this discussion, but I have a couple of thoughts.

My experience has been trying to eliminate static rather that generate it.

First, you want to lower the humidity so that the static doesn't disippate.

Grounding the drum would drain the static so I think that isolating the drum would be better.

[mojo84]

I have nothing constructive offer. All I can come up with is rub a balloon on your hair.

It's obvious this is out of my area of expertise.

[jimlongley]

I am new to this discussion, but I have a couple of thoughts.

My experience has been trying to eliminate static rather that generate it.

First, you want to lower the humidity so that the static doesn't disippate.

Grounding the drum would drain the static so I think that isolating the drum would be better.

Agreed, I used to do the same thing, and the lowest humidity possible along with isolating the drum from ground are necessities.

The option of the Van de Graaf would get you all the potential you need.

You generate static forces by physically rubbing electrons off of one material onto another. That is how the Van de Graaf works.

If you are going to make a 5 gallon roller, then you just have to try several different "wipers" on the bucket. I would start with a piece of carpet first. Just allow it to lay across the bucket, so it makes contact. Probably would be best to have a ground wire to the carpet.

I have gathered the materials to begin the same process, sans the mass production scale you are proposing.

I thought you gave away all of your casting stuff 10 years ago.

I thought about the carpet wiper also and that would be easy to implement. I'm not sure how to use a Van de Graff generator and have the static charge in the 5 gallon bucket. The ones I've seen have a spark gap of no more than an one or two inches. Perhaps the lid for the bucket would have a lip that could be used to roll inside the spark gap, but that would require precise control of the bucket placement.

I gave away (actually an long-term lend) my casting equipment, but the guys with quit casting or decided not to do it. However, I plan to build something like the old Ballisti-Cast Mark II, or perhaps a Mark X except it would be motorized, so the gear I have now will probably be used for a relatively short time. We'll use a Star Lube/Sizer with an autofeed and it too will be motorized. (It's a good thing my buddy is good at designing equipment!)

If you're interested, search http://castboolits.gunloads.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for posts by JMorris and look at some of the equipment he designed and built. It's absolutely amazing what he has done.

Chas.

Chas, the spark gap is there to show that a potential is being created. "Static Electricity" is just that, static, with no flow, the spark gap is flow, generated by many thousands of volts potential. If that JMorris is who I think it is, I used to shoot with him, and he is that brilliant.

With any static generator what you would do is tie one of the electrodes to the drum and the other to ground, and it wouldn't even matter if the drum was metal as long as it wasn't connected in any way to ground. You would want to wear, at a minimum, an anti-static bracelet and probably more, these anti-static devices dissipate a static charge "quiescently" to ground to reduce shock hazard.

And you probably don't want to do this anywhere near your ham radio equipment or other electronics.