Semi-Autos or Revolvers for In-Car Defense

[nyj]

Easier to carry a grenade and just self-terminate.

[bmwrdr]

It was mentioned above the disadvantage of a semiauto in a clinch due to getting it out of battery (due to being pressed against opponent) and unable to fire. The revolver has a similar issue, if the opponent has a grip on the cylinder which prevents rotation of the cylinder not allowing it to fire. I really see no intrinsic advantage, use what you like, both work.

Good point and btw, I keep a round in the chamber and it will go off and out the barrel in a semi automatic handgun and that should loosen the grip on the slide.

[Pawpaw]

It was mentioned above the disadvantage of a semiauto in a clinch due to getting it out of battery (due to being pressed against opponent) and unable to fire. The revolver has a similar issue, if the opponent has a grip on the cylinder which prevents rotation of the cylinder not allowing it to fire. I really see no intrinsic advantage, use what you like, both work.

Good point and btw, I keep a round in the chamber and it will go off and out the barrel in a semi automatic handgun and that should loosen the grip on the slide.

Did you read the account of the Brown shooting in MO last year? Brown had ahold of the officer's pistol and it would not fire at first. Presumably, Brown had pushed the slide out of battery.

These are moot points though. It is impossible to cover all eventualities. An old military saying is that no plan survives first contact. You do the best you can, but just know there will almost always be unforeseen events.

[Jumping Frog]

I'm not that concerned about the cylinder gap flash, as if I'm in a position where I'm fighting for my life inside my car, flash-burns will be the least of my problems.

I've seen graphic photos of the entire meat of multiple fingers flayed right off the bone by cylinder gap gasses. People need to realize it can be a lot more than just experiencing a burn.

Not saying every case would flay the meat off the bone, just that it can and does happen. I'll take an empty case between the glasses and the face any day of the week.

[bmwrdr]

Did you read the account of the Brown shooting in MO last year? Brown had ahold of the officer's pistol and it would not fire at first. Presumably, Brown had pushed the slide out of battery.

These are moot points though. It is impossible to cover all eventualities. An old military saying is that no plan survives first contact. You do the best you can, but just know there will almost always be unforeseen events.

I did not read that particular part but I agree to the fact a semi automatic handgun would be disabled if the slide is pushed back.
The article I was reading was slightly different. It stated Brown wanted to take the officers gun while they were wrestling in the car and two rounds discharged. One round went into Brown's hand and the other was stuck somewhere in the car.

Agreed, a close encounter with a gun can go either way and pulling it from concealment could be a disadvantage.

[treadlightly]

Would subsonic versus supersonic make much difference? The bullet is going to travel a couple of feet and either stop or exit the vehicle. Either way, the track of the sonic boom is short.

I understand the sonic crack is significant noise, but is there a difference in the report of a supersonic round travelling 50 feet versus 2? Seems like there would be.

The supersonic gases at the muzzle will also certainly be significant noise. You won't enjoy the nuances of Lady Gaga's phrasing quite like you used to. If, indeed, you enjoyed the nuances of Lady Gaga's phrasing to begin with.

[JSThane]

I'm not that concerned about the cylinder gap flash, as if I'm in a position where I'm fighting for my life inside my car, flash-burns will be the least of my problems.

I've seen graphic photos of the entire meat of multiple fingers flayed right off the bone by cylinder gap gasses. People need to realize it can be a lot more than just experiencing a burn.

Not saying every case would flay the meat off the bone, just that it can and does happen. I'll take an empty case between the glasses and the face any day of the week.

I'm not certain, but I believe most, if not all, of those finger-flayers happened in conjunction with use of high-pressure, ie "magnum," rounds. What is fairly certain is that the owners of said fingers had their support hands wrapped around the front of the frame, in front of the cylinder gap. Flesh and bone right next to the "bow tie" is usually a bad thing in any case; the high-pressure flame coming out doesn't help in the slightest.

I'm figuring that if there's a hand wrapped around that end of the gun, it's the goblin's hand, so I'm not that bothered by it. Anything I receive from it being in close proximity to my body, well... I'm semi-"protected" by my clothes (not that they'll stop all, or even most of it, but it's something), and I file the remainder into the "shell behind the shades" and "just prescribed myself hearing aids" category.

These are my theories, and theories they are only. I've never tested them, nor do I ever want to.

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't think it much matters. If you are in a situation serious enough that you need to shoot and kill someone through your car window, brass bouncing around or gas burns are going to be pretty low on your list of problems at that point.

This....

....and....

This....

It was mentioned above the disadvantage of a semiauto in a clinch due to getting it out of battery (due to being pressed against opponent) and unable to fire. The revolver has a similar issue, if the opponent has a grip on the cylinder which prevents rotation of the cylinder not allowing it to fire. I really see no intrinsic advantage, use what you like, both work.

Carry (and shoot) whatever you're comfortable with. Inside the confined space of a car, I don't think it's going to make much difference if it's a .45, a 9mm, a .40, or a .357. They're ALL going to be very loud and leave your ears ringing and/or temporarily deafened. I've had pistol brass hit me right between the eyes, or conk me on the noggin', and it isn't really anything more than a distraction. Setting your bare arm down on a freshly ejected piece of 5.56 brass is a lot worse. The cylinder gap flash from a magnum revolver is particularly vivid in lower-light, but I think that the worst of the "cutting" it can do is only within the 1st 2-3 inches. Also, getting injured by a revolver's gas ejection is as much a matter of bad technique as it is anything else. Even so, I'd rather survive an armed carjacking with a flayed thumb than have beautifully manicured thumbs at my own funeral. As far as a semiauto goes, I am left handed, so it is already difficult for me to deploy a gun toward the left side of the vehicle anyway. Shooting to my left ejects the brass toward the windshield. Shooting toward my right bounces the brass off of my shirt. Shooting through the windshield bounces the brass off my wife's noggin......and I'll hear about that later.

I've actually thought before about the Bond Arms pistols that b322da mentioned, and also that (relatively) new "Doubletap" pistol, which is sort of a modern derringer of sorts. But in the end, my "car gun" is pretty much always going to be whatever gun I am carrying on that day. I do own a stainless S&W Model 640 .357 magnum that would make a dandy "glovebox gun"..........if I cared to leave a gun in the car......

[b322da]

...it isn't really anything more than a distraction....

Howdy, young fella'. Reminds me of oncet upon a time when an attractive young lady firing at the point next to mine at the range suddenly screamed. The gentlemen on the range, rather than coming rapidly to her assistance, stood goggleyed as she stepped back and commenced to disrobe the upper part of her body to remove the hot brass from where it had lodged.

Jim

[rbwhatever1]

I like the Bond Arms Derringer. It has its purpose. I didn't get a holster for it since its a backup pocket gun. One cant always wrap his hand around a holstered carry gun when bouncing between yellow & orange and entering the red stage is no different. Once it's out things change. I've only cocked it in my pocket one time in a Walgreens passing through Memphis last November on my way back from deer camp. Amazing what pops in your head. Ballistics and cover.

He's a really big guy will these rounds get enough penetration? Will his jacket clog them? Will they expand? I decided to shoot him in the head with the first shot and forget about cover. I chose to use a 150gr DRT round for this Derringer. I bought 200 rounds, shot 180 and have 20 left. These rounds are supposed to make a massive wound channel to 12 inches deep and it's a point blank no time gun. I was regretting this decision. If he was skinny I probably wouldn't have thought about it.

I'm a strict follower of 230gr in 1911's and 158gr in .357's and will never waiver on either of these self imposed rules. I use 230gr Hornady +P JHP/XTP's in my EDC 1911's and maintain a few hundred rounds of this stuff. Those 150gr DRT rounds are still in the Derringer waiting for the next time I regret them being in there. I need to find a standard velocity 230gr HP round for this gun and shoot the remaining DRT's.

As for shooting through a window or any other scenario I'll always choose the main firearm over the Derringer. Automatic for me...

[Bitter Clinger]

I had the unfortunate experience of hot brass from my Colt Commander bouncing off the side wall at the square range and Mr. Murphy was there to make sure it landed inside of my glasses and scratched my cornea. Vision got blurry and eye was painful. Went home, called Doc, got it patched (just to keep it closed) for first 24 hours, picked up some topical anti-biotics and a bottle of Balcones. Vision back to normal after a coupla weeks w/no apparent permanent damage.

Now as for bouncing off of interior window autoglass - after the first shot there will be far less glass in the way of your follow-up rounds

My assessment is to fire and keep firing until the threat is neutralized. Type of handgun is immaterial as long as you can reach it easily and use it effectively. Even a scratched cornea is a small price to pay vs. what the bad guy could do to you & loved ones...

I've read that it's not a good idea to use semi-autos for defending oneself in a car. Supposedly, if you're driving, and you have to shoot at an attacker outside the driver's side window, the empty shells could bounce off the inside of the windshield and come back and hit you in the head. This might not be too big a deal because in a stressful situation such as this you might not even notice it. But, I wear glasses and if one of those hot shells bounced back and got lodged between the lenses and my eyes, it could be a VERY big deal. So, it sounds like revolvers are the way to go for in-car defense. Opinions?

Thanks in advance,

Crash

[MechAg94]

I would think the main issues for car carry would be reliablity and one-handed operation.

Also, if you are planning on firing a gun at someone who is close enough to grab the gun, you might also want to work on awareness and maybe having a knife.

[Canon1d4]

I would think that the weapon that you carry most would be the one you would want in any case. I never carry a revolver, though I have a few, so what ever situation I find my self in I will have the weapon that I am most comfortable with. If attacked in a car, I will pull out either the Kimber CDP .45 or the Sig P938 and deal with the problem. If the brass hits my glasses, if I can't hear for a few hours, who cares. I have felt with the main problem.

[bmwrdr]

Would subsonic versus supersonic make much difference? The bullet is going to travel a couple of feet and either stop or exit the vehicle. Either way, the track of the sonic boom is short.

Well, inside a car the difference in terms of noise is surely more significant than in an outdoor range. Try a few rounds of subsonic and a few rounds of supersonic bullets next time you are in an indoor range.
And who has ear protection in a real world scenario? My carry round is subsonic, it may not be as effective as +P+ but my hearing may stay intact should I ever get in a situation where I actually have to discharge a gun for self-defense.
Last but not least, according to actual statistics most gun related incidents are indoors.
Should I have missed something please let me know. THX.

[bmwrdr]

I understand the sonic crack is significant noise, but is there a difference in the report of a supersonic round travelling 50 feet versus 2? Seems like there would be.

I can't really remember hearing a longer lasting bang while shooting at 50 yards vs. shooting close range like 3 yards.