Gated community

[KBCraig]

I see several others have already posted about the idiocy of the police response. If they can't do enforce the law inside the gates, then they can't do anything about it should the gentlemen of the neighborhood decide to teach this jerk how we speak to women and children in Texas.

But we know that if the guy turns out to have an allergy to baseball bats (they make him swell up and turn funny colors), then the police wouldn't hesitate to get involved, even inside the gates.

Every gated community has an association, and rules, and penalties. Start slapping the idiot with fines. Association fines are legally binding in Texas, to the point that (I believe) you can place a lien on his home for unpaid fines, and even forclose.

Oh, and like everyone else advises: get the CHL anyway. And get some strong OC spray into the hands of the ladies.

Kevin

[txinvestigator]

If this happens to the ladies again, they should go down to the police station and ask to file harrassment charges.

We should be careful about giving advice when we are not sure of the law;


Texas Penal Code
§42.07. Harassment.

(a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to harass,
annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass another, he:

(1) initiates communication by telephone, in writing, or by
electronic communication and in the course of the communication makes
a comment, request, suggestion, or proposal that is obscene;

(2) threatens, by telephone, in writing, or by electronic
communication, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm the person
receiving the threat, to inflict bodily injury on the person or to
commit a felony against the person, a member of his family or
household, or his property;

(3) conveys, in a manner reasonably likely to alarm the
person receiving the report, a false report, which is known by the
conveyor to be false, that another person has suffered death or
serious bodily injury;

(4) causes the telephone of another to ring repeatedly or
makes repeated telephone communications anonymously or in a manner
reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass,
or offend another;

(5) makes a telephone call and intentionally fails to hang up
or disengage the connection;

(6) knowingly permits a telephone under the person's control
to be used by another to commit an offense under this section; or

(7) sends repeated electronic communications in a manner
reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, embarrass,
or offend another.

[txinvestigator]

I don't know anything about gated communitys, but I am still not convinced that he can't still be charged with at least a disorderly conduct.

Don't forget the Civil options.

Tomcat

Disorderly conduct requires the offense to be conducted in a public place, of which a gated community is not.

And lets all be real. Even the original poster has no idea what the man actually said to the women, how they responded to the man, or what the LEO actually told the person who called. All we know is what may be second or third hand information.

The person did not committ a crime. Was he rude? Of course. Does this mean that people in gated communities are exempt from law? NO IT DOES NOT.

However, some laws only apply in public places, such as disorderly conduct. Can the police enforce laws in gated communities? Yes they can.

I would ask the original poster who maintains the streets? The association or the city?

The association would be a good place to file a complaint.

[Velocity]

Here is the information on gated communities - oddly enough, this came up in a conversation with a Harris County Constable that I witnessed just today!

A gated community is considered private property, and as such, a police officer CANNOT "work traffic" (ie, issue citations for speeding, running a stop sign, etc). This is currently in the Texas courts and MAY change, but that's how it stands today.

They CAN, of course, enforce all sorts of other laws - criminal trespass, pretty much anything considered a felony, etc.

In this case, if the women felt threatened by the mans actions, they should report him to the city and/or county law enforcement where they (and he) resides. The advice about also notifying the civic association also is good, although I wouldn't expect them to take any action unless a pattern of complaints shows. Of course, you can't have a pattern if nobody is reporting him. Repeated complaints WILL likely see action, at the very least, a visit by officer friendly to discuss the finer points of public behavior with "the jerk" at some point.

Of course, the advice on carry of fox pepper spray is a good one as well.

The several comments on retalitory action (baseball bats, "good ole boys club", etc) are NOT, and would likely land someone BESIDES the jerk himself in jail in short order should anyone be stupid enough to follow that advice...

V

[KBCraig]

The several comments on retalitory action (baseball bats, "good ole boys club", etc) are NOT, and would likely land someone BESIDES the jerk himself in jail in short order should anyone be stupid enough to follow that advice...
V

The poison's in the dose, and the art is in the execution.

I don't think anyone else mentioned baseball bats, but when I mentioned them, I did so to point out that bumps and bruises would get the local PD involved.

Kevin

[stevie_d_64]

If this happens to the ladies again, they should go down to the police station and ask to file harrassment charges.

We should be careful about giving advice when we are not sure of the law;

Since you cut and pasted this, I took a look at it very closely...

The incident involved no electronic means of conveying a verbally abusive, harrassing statement...

It was given in person, face to face to the recipients...

Tex...

If I or someone came up to you, stopped their car, got out, and said "Suck my ****!"

What "really" is going to be your reaction to that statement???

This nieghbor of theirs is a real pill to the Nth degree...Thats an obvious assumption...

What is left to be determined is, will there be, or has there been any further incidences of "Harrassment" as defined (in some way) per this statute???

And do the homeowners in this gated community feel that there could be an escalation of this persons demeanor when the community confronts and tries to reason with this individual???

Don't get me wrong...I'm all for confronting the gentleman on this and other issues...And doing it in a very aggressive manner...

If the Law Enforcement in that area chooses not to investigate and confront the individual to get the full scope of whats going on...Then I as a resident there would seek to speak to their boss, and escalate it up from there...If there is no joy in that course of action, then certainly other creative things can be done...

I for one, would certainly be taking an evening walk with the ladies for a while...That to me seems to be throwing it right back in his face...I doubt he'd come out to harrass anymore at seeing that reaction...They should walk right by his house and make sure he sees that...

I think that idea at least rates 3 cents...

[Paladin]

Apparently the Harrassment law has changed, because it used to say:

"~ (a)(7)(A) on more than one occasion engages in conduct directed specifically toward the other person, including following that person, that is reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass that person;"

http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/4207.htm

[txinvestigator]

Apparently the Harrassment law has changed, because it used to say:

"~ (a)(7)(A) on more than one occasion engages in conduct directed specifically toward the other person, including following that person, that is reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass that person;"

http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/4207.htm

Notice that requiers it to be on more than one occasion, so the incident here still did not meet the statute.

BTW, the above section was sculpted, had a bunch added, and made into Stalking.

[txinvestigator]

If this happens to the ladies again, they should go down to the police station and ask to file harrassment charges.

We should be careful about giving advice when we are not sure of the law;

Since you cut and pasted this, I took a look at it very closely...

The incident involved no electronic means of conveying a verbally abusive, harrassing statement...

It was given in person, face to face to the recipients...

Right, so it is not a violation of harrassment.

Tex...

If I or someone came up to you, stopped their car, got out, and said "Suck my ****!"

What "really" is going to be your reaction to that statement???

LOL My reaction would be the same as your; however, my action (what I would do) would be nothing unless it appeared an assault was imminent.

Texas Penal Code

§9.31. Self-defense.



(b) The use of force against another is not justified:

(1) in the response to verbal provocation alone;



[/quote]

[stevie_d_64]

LOL My reaction would be the same as your; however, my action (what I would do) would be nothing unless it appeared an assault was imminent.

Texas Penal Code

§9.31. Self-defense.



(b) The use of force against another is not justified:

(1) in the response to verbal provocation alone;

[/quote]

Right on!

You know, in incidences like this, your "station", or obligation, is almost to have to take that first shot of an assault, before you can react...

But thats where training, education, history (if any) with the potential assailant needs to be factored into the encounter...

But whoever has time to figure all that out, right???

In a situation like this, I would almost say its more of a challenge and fun to difuse the situation, proving what an "azzterix" the person really is, if they're that smart...Than to clear leather and perforate the object of our offences...

We all know we have the potential to really end a situation in the gravest of extremes...I certainly am confident in just about any situation to accomplish that very effectively...

The one thing you cannot predict, is that no matter how much you smile, talk calmly and reasonably, how well you project your desire to understand where the antagonist is coming from, or why they are upset with you...How much of that causes them pause to think about what they are doing...

You can always hope, but never expect that from anyone who is a potential asault, needing an excuse to pounce...

[Paladin]

Apparently the Harrassment law has changed, because it used to say:

"~ (a)(7)(A) on more than one occasion engages in conduct directed specifically toward the other person, including following that person, that is reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass that person;"

http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/4207.htm

Notice that requiers it to be on more than one occasion, so the incident here still did not meet the statute.
.

Hence my suggestion "If this happens to the ladies again, they should go down to the police station and ask to file harrassment charges."

O great all knowing one

[stevie_d_64]

Hang on...If I recall this guy has made multiple verbal assaults on residents there...

One was the group of ladies walking the neighborhood, and the other was at some kids taking a loose dog back to him...

That means it fits into that statute then...

Of course it appears no one has filed a complaint, so maybe it has to be two or more "filed" complaints before the law can step in and rain on his parade...

[txinvestigator]

Apparently the Harrassment law has changed, because it used to say:

"~ (a)(7)(A) on more than one occasion engages in conduct directed specifically toward the other person, including following that person, that is reasonably likely to harass, annoy, alarm, abuse, torment, or embarrass that person;"

http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/pc/4207.htm

Notice that requiers it to be on more than one occasion, so the incident here still did not meet the statute.
.

Hence my suggestion "If this happens to the ladies again, they should go down to the police station and ask to file harrassment charges."

O great all knowing one

Hence, that statute is not in effect anymore, and does not apply, and you would have had to establish that the conduct was directed specifically towards the other person.

[txinvestigator]

Hang on...If I recall this guy has made multiple verbal assaults on residents there...

One was the group of ladies walking the neighborhood, and the other was at some kids taking a loose dog back to him...

That means it fits into that statute then...

Of course it appears no one has filed a complaint, so maybe it has to be two or more "filed" complaints before the law can step in and rain on his parade...

The statute is no longer in effect Steve. :(

[stevie_d_64]

Hang on...If I recall this guy has made multiple verbal assaults on residents there...

One was the group of ladies walking the neighborhood, and the other was at some kids taking a loose dog back to him...

That means it fits into that statute then...

Of course it appears no one has filed a complaint, so maybe it has to be two or more "filed" complaints before the law can step in and rain on his parade...

The statute is no longer in effect Steve. :(

So what could their recourse be??? Obviously they should file the complaints...Get that on record, regardless if they investigate or not...

My personal feeling is that his behavior in public is abhorant, but not necessarily illegal, or chargable...He needs to be dressed down "publically" on it, and if it continues, some sort of legal proceeding needs to be implemented...What that could be, and how effective it would be is speculative...