being followed on foot - really happened last night

[Flatland2D]

You have yet to comment on what you would do. Apparently you disagree with my prognosis so how about posting your own thoughts??? I'm curious on what the "right" course of action is.

Sorry, forgot that was the original question here. I don't really disagree with what you said. The thing about having to retreat is something I don't like but don't want that to be the thing that convicts me if I have to use force. I'm hoping that'll change in 2007. Florida's recent changes are maybe the most important things we need next session (no civil suit if not guilty/no billed, and extension of castle doctrine). So again, I didn't mean to criticize negatively what you said, because retreat wouldn't really be the first thing I'd want to do (unless the attacker was out of shape, I'm not a particulary fast runner... just average I'd say). Just trying to make you aware of the potential legal problem, no moral objections there.

I don't think there is one "right" answer to this situation. I'd have to reflect more on this to give a full answer, but I'd probably try to retreat and quickly assess whether or not I would be successful in doing so. If not, I'd turn around, draw, and hope the threat stops (either by their own decision or with use of force). If you can make it to your property in time and still felt you were being threatened, you could make it known you are armed. Being on your property, you can carry however you want, open or concealed. Just be careful not to waive it around in a threatening manner. I would consider doing this (making it known that I was armed) if it was an option. If the streets were crowded and in the day time, I wouldn't do it, but if it was night time and just me and the BG, I'd keep it as an option. Although now that I think about, you've just shown the BG where you live, which as discussed earlier, is really not a good thing.

I think simply put, I'd retreat while it was still a possibility as the law requires me, but then use force from there. Use your best judgement to determine where to draw that line.

[nitrogen]

You've already answered your own question. Get some OC so you can stop looking to your pistol as the answer to every threat (perceived).

Remember not everyone can use OC. IF you have Asthma, OC or other chemical agents can be counter-indicated. It can cause respratory arrest.
If you've ever had a severe asthma attack, and had to go to the hospital to be intubated; you'd be more scared of using a chemical agent than about anything else. That's why i'd be looking to my pistol, but that's just me.

[gigag04]

Once they are in front of the house, the suspect breaks into a run from about 30-40 feet away. His girlfriend runs into the house, and my buddy decides to follow her. They lock all the doors and call the cops, but try not to make it too huge of a deal to my buddies roommates.

They were in front of his house when the assault began. I'm not sure if this changes how I would react, but feel more confident in a draw now....its almost 2 am, and I'm on my property with an unkown charging at my girlfriend.

I also have asthma, but it doesn't bother me much anymore...not sure what OC would do.

[flintknapper]

You've already answered your own question. Get some OC so you can stop looking to your pistol as the answer to every threat (perceived).

Remember not everyone can use OC. IF you have Asthma, OC or other chemical agents can be counter-indicated. It can cause respratory arrest.
If you've ever had a severe asthma attack, and had to go to the hospital to be intubated; you'd be more scared of using a chemical agent than about anything else. That's why i'd be looking to my pistol, but that's just me.

Clearly, "cross contamination" can present a problem when using OC (asthma or not). But, from what you have posted, I am hearing you say that you are willing to use deadly force in place of non-lethal force so that you can avoid a possible asthma attack. I don't think that is going to work in your favor in court.

The whole point is this: If you are justified in using deadly force in this situation (and I don't believe you would be) then drawing your pistol should not be a problem. Otherwise, you need to be able to defend yourself in some other manner I.E. (running away, OC, empty hands skills, verbal commands, etc).

Whatever you would have done if we take the "Pistol" out the equation.. is what you should have done in this scenario (IMO). In this case, since both parties were able bodied, then running away (as they did) makes good sense.

Increasingly, I see posts here that lead to me to believe that some CHL's view their weapon as the answer to just about any threat. If you have any other option available... use it first!

And Gig, your buddy needs to much more aware of whats going on around him at 2:00 in the morning especially if he's on foot. Thats kind of late to able to get a sandwich on campus isn't it?

Just don't let your pistol "empower" you the wrong way is all I'm saying. I know there are times when it needs to be the "first" thing to come out...but with most altercations.. this is not the case.

Glad no one was hurt.

[RioShooter]

Why didn't you call the cops with your cell phone when this guy started to follow you? You do carry a cell phone don't you?

[jbirds1210]

I know it sounds a bit simple....but in situations similar to this, I have slowed to to "stretch my legs" and asked something in the form of," how are you doing today"? with a nod of the head. The response to this friendly gesture will let you know if the person has negative plans as well as letting them know that you are paying attention to them and realize they are following you.

I think it is a bad idea to announce that you are armed and willing to protect yourself....if a guy is doing nothing but running in a public place, he might take this as a threat and produce his legally concealed firearm

I believe that being cautious and aware of your surroundings is a powerful tool that criminals recognize. They are really looking for sheeple to snatch purses from, not the guy walking confidently down the street with the knowledge necessary to protect themselves. Of course there are exceptions and random acts that will not hold true to any model. Just my opinions...
Jason

[nitrogen]

If that's what you're getting; I apologise, as that's not what I'm saying.

I'm basically saying, as much as I'd want to use OC, I'm scared to death of it, and I won't. At times i'll carry one of those deafining airhorns instead.

[flintknapper]

Why didn't you call the cops with your cell phone when this guy started to follow you? You do carry a cell phone don't you?

Always a good idea.

In this case, the response time (for police to arrive) would mean that he would end up having to "deal with it" anyway. Thats really the whole reason any of us carry anyhow. Naturally, if you do call the police (or 911) you'll want to give a very good description of yourself and the circumstance. Kinda bad for the police to roll up on a "man with a gun" call.. and not know that you're the good guy.

I'm sure this situation was scary for all involved. Thankfully, it ended without anyone being injured. I feel certain there were some lessons learned. Sounds like the girl is pretty sharp already. Good girl!!!

[quidni]

Remember not everyone can use OC. IF you have Asthma, OC or other chemical agents can be counter-indicated. It can cause respratory arrest.
If you've ever had a severe asthma attack, and had to go to the hospital to be intubated; you'd be more scared of using a chemical agent than about anything else. That's why i'd be looking to my pistol, but that's just me.

But, from what you have posted, I am hearing you say that you are willing to use deadly force in place of non-lethal force so that you can avoid a possible asthma attack. I don't think that is going to work in your favor in court.

It could, if I were on the jury, & the person had a doctor's testimony verifying the asthma/allergic sensitivity. My husband grew up with asthma, & sometimes had to be taken to the emergency room during a severe attack. My son also had to deal with asthma as a teenager. I've got some serious allergies of my own (some perfumes will literally knock me out). Folks who've never experienced respiratory arrest or anaphylaxis personally, or even vicariously through a loved one, can sometimes have a hard time understanding how serious a reaction can be, or can become, if not treated promptly. But you can't effectively defend yourself or run away if you can't breathe and are within seconds of passing out.

Medicine has come a long way in a few years, yes, but asthma can still kill someone.

[/rant]
Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

[flintknapper]

Remember not everyone can use OC. IF you have Asthma, OC or other chemical agents can be counter-indicated. It can cause respratory arrest.
If you've ever had a severe asthma attack, and had to go to the hospital to be intubated; you'd be more scared of using a chemical agent than about anything else. That's why i'd be looking to my pistol, but that's just me.

But, from what you have posted, I am hearing you say that you are willing to use deadly force in place of non-lethal force so that you can avoid a possible asthma attack. I don't think that is going to work in your favor in court.

It could, if I were on the jury, & the person had a doctor's testimony verifying the asthma/allergic sensitivity. My husband grew up with asthma, & sometimes had to be taken to the emergency room during a severe attack. My son also had to deal with asthma as a teenager. I've got some serious allergies of my own (some perfumes will literally knock me out). Folks who've never experienced respiratory arrest or anaphylaxis personally, or even vicariously through a loved one, can sometimes have a hard time understanding how serious a reaction can be, or can become, if not treated promptly. But you can't effectively defend yourself or run away if you can't breathe and are within seconds of passing out.

Medicine has come a long way in a few years, yes, but asthma can still kill someone.

[/rant]
Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

Thank you, for that information.

I'm not disputing how serious an asthma attack can be.

One could be triggered by nothing more than the fear/excitement of the situation posted. For those who suffer from severe asthma or are aware of conditions that cause an attack, by all means.. avoid that condition (trigger).

I still maintain that if you go to court on the strength of an argument like: "I used my pistol because I can't carry Pepper Spray", that it will not bode well for you unless the totality of the situation justified the use of deadly force. But, as you say, a jury might decide otherwise.

In the case cited, it is my opinion that deadly force would not have been justified, and I worry that some people are carrying as the "sole" means of defending themselves. Whats the old saying? "When your only tool is a hammer, then the whole world begins to look like a nail"!

I am glad that the subject of asthma was brought up however, because it makes us give thought to what actions an asthmatic might take if attacked.

Everyone has physical limitations of one sort or another, so being aware of how this could effect your ability to defend yourself seems like a good thing to know.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Flint.

[TxFire]

I have to agree the Flint on this. I am fully aware of the possible implications of a serious asthma attack as often I'm the one treating it. I think that the knowledge of you condition should force you to seek out other options and tactics (non lethal) and up the postion of the handgun on the options list. Like stated it would be a poor justification to stand on in court in my opinion in the situation listed. I am still very new at all of this and am still forming my personal strategies and tactics for personal defense, but I am trying to leave the handgun out of the equation if at all posible. Each persons situation and capabilities are different and must be dealt with as one sees fit. What works for me might be impracticle/impossible for others and vice versa.

[nitrogen]

I see what you folks are saying now.
I'm not going to pull my pistol when I could have used OC, or a less than lethal alternative if I could safely use it. I do take that portion of the law seriously, and would not use it as an excuse to pull a gun out when I shouldn't. Just because I have Asthma doesn't mean I can't dash away.

My fiancee thinks I should invest in one of those handheld zapper things. After seeing news reports about people being killed by tasers, it makes me think seriously about this before getting one.

It's situations like these that I wish Asp clubs were legal. Not that i'd love to club someone, but having a 3 foot extendable stick with OC on the end of it might make me able to acutally use OC with less fear.

[Flatland2D]

My fiancee thinks I should invest in one of those handheld zapper things. After seeing news reports about people being killed by tasers, it makes me think seriously about this before getting one.

While I won't disagree that people probably have died from "stun guns" under certain circumstances, don't forget that the media has a bad reputation for blowing things terribly out of proportion. I would consider it a viable option for non-lethal self-defense.

[GrannyGlock]

Lubbock has just has a Taser gun death. LPD apparently tased the guy (maybe several times) who then fell and hit his head. Alcohol apparently also played a role in there somewhere. Supposedly everything was with "LPD guidelines"

[AG-EE]

If it is 2AM, that means it is dark, and you can't very well see what the attacker may or may not be holding. If he gets to within 30 ft, I don't believe I could get my key in a keyhole, unlock the door, and get safely inside before he was on top of me (presuming the door is locked). This would definately be a bad situation.

If my wife was with me, that would mean my child was also with me, in which case all 3 of us could not outrun an attacker. I would have to yell for my wife to get inside with my daughter, lock doors, and call 911, and I would have no choice but to turn and face the attacker. I would not run away from the door in case my wife was not safely inside yet, so I could not retreat from that area. I do not believe there would be sufficient time to deploy a LTL alternative, see if that worked, and then draw my firearm if need be.

It would be best not to let them get that close before confronting somehow, but if I slipped up and they did get that close, I believe the only solution would be to draw and yell stop, hope they see your pistol, and they turn and run away.

This is assuming I am at my door to my house and I notice an attacker running at me in close proximity as stated in the original post.