cocked and locked?

[RPBrown]

I've got a question for the 1911 gurus:

If a 1911 is dropped, is there an internal device to keep the hammer from hitting the slide's end (I forgot the proper term for that part)?

RPBrown:

I think I respectfully disagree with you . I believe a 1911 cocked & locked is actually safer then systems like the Glock . Now before anyone grabs the rope and starts looking for a good hanging tree, I like Glocks and XD’s, and carry both.

But while holstering, if something (jacket zipper, shirt tail, etc.) gets inside the trigger guard of a Glock style pistol, it could go boom when you press it into the holster. This has happened several times. The 1911 won’t care and won’t go boom.

I don’t worry excessively about this, but I am very careful when I re-holster my Glocks/XD not to get hung up in my cover garment.

This is what I intended to say. As my 1st semi was a Glock, I became comfortable with it. After I got the 1st 1911, it took some getting used to. It's all in the mindset (of which mine is sometimes feeble). After I got used to the 1911 (or the mindset behind it) I realized it was a safer carry although I dont have a problem with anything I carry. Just have to have different precautions.

[flintknapper]

Concerning the knife attacks- if there is a knife in the fight someone is going to bleed. I have been practicing martial arts for many years. I just hope to be able to stop the second or third strike.

I carry a Glock with one in the pipe and a trigger block.

I practice draws pushing it out as it leaves the holster.

Just hope I never have to find out if it works in a presure situation.

Longtooth do you use a trigger block on your Glocks?

He's gone one better, he uses a "purchase" block (He doesn't own one).

Seriously, LT and I both have great respect for the Glock and its capabilities. Its just that they're so dang ugly.

[TX Rancher]

I dont have a problem with anything I carry. Just have to have different precautions.

Very true statement

[Venus Pax]

I don't have a problem with an ugly gun. I have a problem with a gun that doesn't work properly and won't get me out of trouble.

[flintknapper]

I don't have a problem with an ugly gun. I have a problem with a gun that doesn't work properly and won't get me out of trouble.

No argument there!

Of course..my 1911 works properly, but its up to me get myself out of trouble.

I'm just "gigging" the Glock owners a little , I would never trade "looks" for reliability, and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

[Liberty]

I don't have a problem with an ugly gun. I have a problem with a gun that doesn't work properly and won't get me out of trouble.

No argument there!

Of course..my 1911 works properly, but its up to me get myself out of trouble.

I'm just "gigging" the Glock owners a little , I would never trade "looks" for reliability, and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Seriously though, why would anyone care about a what something looks like when its going to spend its life pretty much concealed? It seems a lot of gun owners like their guns pretty. Nothing wrong with that, I just could never understand the idea of form over function.
On 1911's I only know what I've learned on this site, but it seems as though they are a expencive finicky design. The 1911 fans themselves have convinced me that they aren't for me. I'll take cheap and reliable any day... Pretty doesn't even factor in.

[flintknapper]

I don't have a problem with an ugly gun. I have a problem with a gun that doesn't work properly and won't get me out of trouble.

No argument there!

Of course..my 1911 works properly, but its up to me get myself out of trouble.

I'm just "gigging" the Glock owners a little , I would never trade "looks" for reliability, and "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Seriously though, why would anyone care about a what something looks like when its going to spend its life pretty much concealed? It seems a lot of gun owners like their guns pretty. Nothing wrong with that, I just could never understand the idea of form over function.
On 1911's I only know what I've learned on this site, but it seems as though they are a expencive finicky design. The 1911 fans themselves have convinced me that they aren't for me. I'll take cheap and reliable any day... Pretty doesn't even factor in.

I guess its a "fault" of mine.

But basically.. its like my wife. She's 100% reliable, good hearted, etc, etc, but it doesn't hurt that she's good looking too.

I guess I'm saying, if I can have both (function and looks), then thats what I want. Speaking in gun terms of course.

[TX Rancher]

Seriously though, why would anyone care about a what something looks like when its going to spend its life pretty much concealed? It seems a lot of gun owners like their guns pretty. Nothing wrong with that, I just could never understand the idea of form over function.

In general, I agree with you…but that’s just me. The idea of form over function is probably not a good idea in a carry pistol. But there’s nothing wrong with form and function. My wife likes the look of her Kimber CDP, but she likes its reliability even more. So for her function takes priority, but form also maters. She likes leather holsters since they scratch the Kimber’s finish less then Kydex, so she’s willing to pay more for a good quality leather holster. I think Kydex is fine, and so what if it scratches the pistol. To each their own…

For me ugly is fine. I want sights that are not “melted�. That way I can use them to help rack the slide one handed. My ops weapons had sandpaper tape on them at strategic spots to facilitate clearance operations with slippery, cold, and not functioning properly fingers, cheaper then checkering, but the same principle. If someone wants to put the bucks down to have their weapon nicely checkered, more power to them. It’s not for me, but I see nothing wrong with it for them since it’s still intended to increase the survivability of the user.

On 1911's I only know what I've learned on this site, but it seems as though they are a expencive finicky design. The 1911 fans themselves have convinced me that they aren't for me. I'll take cheap and reliable any day... Pretty doesn't even factor in.

I carried 1911’s for many years, and they were not expensive ones. Modifications were done to increase reliability, but they didn’t add much cost to the weapon. When I shot competition in the 80’s, I went through a time when I had a 1911 that was decked out for IPSC. It could be finicky, and only liked certain ammo, and sometimes just didn’t work right. But it was a competition gun, not my carry gun. I don’t agree that an effective, reliable 1911 has to be expensive.

Do I like Glocks, absolutely! I have three (19, 23, 26) and like all of them. Recently I’ve become comfortable enough with the 26 I carry it often. The 19 is my “Ranch� gun and sits by my bed on the night stand and stays on my hip whether I’m horseback, on foot, or sitting the tractor.

But, thank the lord, I have never used them in combat, but I have the 1911. To me, old “Iron Slabs� has proven itself to be a reliable, effective platform when it really maters… when the metal hits the meat. For that reason it will always have a special place in my mind, and in my gun safe. And trust me, they were not expensive ones

[KinnyLee]

I've heard that the current 1911 pistol used by the FBI's HRT teams was tested for drop-safety in pretty extreme conditions. Tests included dropping the pistols from heights in excess of six feet as well as tests where the pistol was tossed onto conrete in a manner similar to skipping rocks across a pond. None of the pistols fired accidently during those tests from what I heard. That pistol is available commercially as the Springfield TRP Professional Model. It has no firing-pin block. It might have a titanium firing-pin and extra power firing-pin spring as that was the "cool" setup around the time the gun was introduced.

Not quite, but close.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... 86947/pg_4

During the drop test, guns were dropped onto concrete from a height of 4 feet, landing three times on the muzzle and three times on the butt. The throw test was conducted at 15 feet with the guns heaved onto concrete, twice on the left side and twice on the right. "The guns were pretty beat up after that," Williams deadpanned. However, none of the primed empty cases in the chambers popped and none of the magazines came loose, so it was on to the "field suitability" test.

[Skiprr]

The best safety is your brain, not some piece of hardware on your pistol/rifle.

TX gets points for "Maxim of the Day."

I'll take cheap and reliable any day... Pretty doesn't even factor in.

Yep. But function and form sometimes go together and meld nicely. In fact, I think the most ergonomically effective designs are often the most pleasing to the eye as well as to the hand. CAD/CAM engineering design and CNC machining have created a huge change in the firearm industry in the last couple of decades, and as a result we all have a far greater variety to choose from than ever before.

Even venerable designs like the 1911 have been affected. I'd even argue that computer aided design and manufacturing are what's led to such a resurgence in 1911 (and STI's "2011") popularity. Would I have been a 1911 fan in 1975? Nope. Because the stock mil-spec was at best a basic tool and only modestly accurate--and I wouldn't have had the money necessary to take it to a custom 'smith and fork over a couple of grand to have it "fixed."

Companies like Kimber, Wilson, STI, Nighthawk, Springfield, etc., started applying CAD/CAM and CNC manufacturing to turn out ready-made 1911s that had many or most of those custom upgrades that used to be done manually by specialized 'smiths. A pretty well-decked-out Taurus 1911 today that costs $600 would have only bought you $160 worth of gun in 1975. What a deal, eh? (I found a pretty cool inflation calculator at http://www.westegg.com/inflation/).

And we have new, innovative designs coming out pretty regularly now because concepts can be tested and modeled to tight tolerances on CAD systems before metal is ever milled. Personally favoring .45 caliber, something I'm excited about is that a number of manufacturers kicked designs into high gear to respond to the SOCOM consolidation requirements. Since that program has been suspended indefinitely, I think we'll see a few new innovative .45 ACP designs hitting the civilian market this year.

What's "best" is always what's best for the individual shooter. What's really great is that we have so many to choose from!

[seamusTX]

Seriously though, why would anyone care about a what something looks like when its going to spend its life pretty much concealed?

I tend to agree with you in practice; but if everyone thought that way, there'd be no such thing as designer underwear.

Many shooters use their carry pieces in competitions, where they are seen.

- Jim

[Tote 9]

After reading all the pros. and cons to this thread I can see no clear winner.
I think it comes down to this. As has been said, "to each his own". Whatever
a person is comfortable with and likes is what he should go with. Myself I
like reliability and good looks and I know for certain I can and do have them both.


If someone doesn't like my house or anything else I have, thats too bad, I
didn't build it for them. I'm happy with it and thats what matters. The same
goes with guns. Again, to "each his own", what ever makes you happy.

[Liberty]

After reading all the pros. and cons to this thread I can see no clear winner.
I think it comes down to this. As has been said, "to each his own". Whatever
a person is comfortable with and likes is what he should go with. Myself I
like reliability and good looks and I know for certain I can and do have them both.

Its not about winning, Everyone has different taste, and we get to learn why different people like different guns. Glocks and 1911s fascinate me because they have such loyal fans. and yet they are so different. I don't get to try out a lot of different guns so its nice to hear why people like what they do.

[Tote 9]

After reading all the pros. and cons to this thread I can see no clear winner.
I think it comes down to this. As has been said, "to each his own". Whatever
a person is comfortable with and likes is what he should go with. Myself I
like reliability and good looks and I know for certain I can and do have them both.

Its not about winning, Everyone has different taste, and we get to learn why different people like different guns. Glocks and 1911s fascinate me because they have such loyal fans. and yet they are so different. I don't get to try out a lot of different guns so its nice to hear why people like what they do.

[dihappy]

Excellent thread! Im new and considering a Kimber Ultra, love that gun.

I have a question. Am i correct in saying that the 1911's pose a greater risk of AD/ND when unloading?

What is the proper method of lowering the hammer/unloading a 1911 after being at C&L?

Thanks :)

Many have already answered on how to unload a 1911, and personally I agree with all the directions given.

But in respect to the 1911 being more “unsafe� during unloading, I think the answer is both yes and no depending on what weapon you are comparing against.

If you take for instance a Glock, I feel there’s not much difference, both drop the hammer against the firing pin. But the 1911 at least allows me to control the fall of the hammer since I can get to it.

If you compare against a weapon with a decocker such as the 92F’s or the Walther P99 QA, the 1911 is probably in second place.

But I think the thing to remember is the best safety is your brain, not some piece of hardware on your pistol/rifle. I suspect most AD’s are the result of someone pulling the trigger on an “empty� chamber that isn’t really empty. If your mindset is “I don’t pull the trigger until I know the chamber is empty, and then checked again.� you’re good to go. Of course always act as if it’s loaded, and point it in a safe direction…

If your brain “safety� is engaged, you won’t have any problems. If it’s not engaged, all the mechanical safeties on your weapon could prove useless…

As for the Ultra, go for it. I have one and so does my wife…it’s the only thing she will carry.

Thanks to all who responded. Lots of great advice thanks to alot of personal experience. I love you guys :) In a strictly heterosexual way of course :)