Study Pans Proposed Gun Database

[avid]

We already knew this wouldn't work. A waste of money and energy.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... ss-netzero


Study Pans Proposed Gun Database
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2008 By AP/MATT APUZZO
Article Tools
(WASHINGTON) — Collecting ballistic "fingerprints" from millions of new guns would create a database that would be too unreliable to be useful in solving gun crimes, a team of scientists said Wednesday.
The 300-page report from the National Research Council advised against a proposal that some lawmakers called for in the wake of the 2002 Washington-area sniper shootings.
The concept relies on the assumption that individual guns leave unique markings, like fingerprints, on bullets and shell casings. Some in Congress have said that every new gun should be test-fired so those markings can be entered into a database. Investigators could then use the database to identify which gun fired bullets found at crime scenes.
But the study said the idea is not feasible because digital imaging technology isn't reliable enough to distinguish tiny differences in the markings.
The proposed database would be similar to the National Integrated Ballistic Information Network, which is already in use. Run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the database includes ballistic data on about 100,000 guns used in crimes. It has about a 75 percent to 95 percent success rate, the scientists found.
With that kind of success rate, supporters say, creating a database for all guns only makes sense. "Ballistics testing is only as useful as the number of images in the database," Sen. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., said while pushing for the database in 2002.
Actually, the opposite is true, Wednesday's report said. The larger the database, the more errors the computer will return.(My emphasis)
Under the current system, the computer might find 10 possible matches for a single bullet and there's a good chance one of them will be confirmed. After adding more than 1 million guns to the database each year, the same system might produce hundreds of possible matches. "It's a scale problem," said John Rolph, chairman of the group that completed the study. "If we're talking about using this in criminal investigations, we've got to be able to get something that's practically useful."
The report also questioned the underlying theory behind ballistic imaging. It said the idea that each firearm produces unique marks has not been scientifically proven.
The Justice Department contracted with the National Research Council, an arm of the National Academy of Sciences, to conduct the study. Its authors are professors at the nation's top universities and researchers at technology companies.

[dukesean]

read that article earlier today. funny how all us gun owners pretty much already knew it would not work before they wasted all this money. oh and same goes for "microstamping," but I suppose they'll need to spend some more money to confirm what we already know.

And still I'm sure many politicians will choose to ignore empirical evidence and rely on illogical feelings as they have always done.

thanks for the link

[rm9792]

And again, like all the other silly ideas they come up with, this doesnt address the millions of guns already out there. Last i checked criminals dont buy new guns. Unless they can magically sweep up every existing gun to be replaced with these "smart" guns then it is a futile effort. Even if swept up, more will be smuggled in thru our open borders.

[hirundo82]

Maryland has entered every new gun sold in the state into a ballistic database since 2000. How many crimes has the $2.6 million spent on the database helped solve? None, according to the Maryland State Police.

[frankie_the_yankee]

The people pushing for a "ballistic database" will not have the slightest regard for the study above. The reason is that do not care that it won't help to solve crimes. For them, it's primary value is that it is a "database". Just another step toward one of the key milestones of the gun ban movement - blanket registration of all guns. Before you can take 'em away, you gotta know where they are.

And in a way reminescent of the leaders of ancient China, they take the long view. The politicians who want to register your guns today will swear up and down that there isno way they would ever take away your guns. And you know what? THEY WILL BE TELLING THE TRUTH.

But times change. Leaders pass from the scene to be replaced by new ones. And someday, the leaders in place at the time will say to your children, or their children, "Society can no longer afford the costs of private gun ownership. You will have to turn in all your guns."

And your kids will say, "Wait a minute. When registration was passed, we were promised that it would never be used to take away our guns."

To which the politicians will reply, "We didn't make those promises. They were made 50 years ago, by the people in power at the time. Times change, and today's society is different than it was back then. You're gonna have to turn them all in."

That's basically what they did in the UK. And it's what they are planning to do here.

All they have to do is boil the frog slow enough that he doesn't notice what's going on and jump out of the pot.

[stevie_d_64]

Another aspect to this is what (as a gunowner) you would like to change out a barrel on one of your guns...You may be required to jump through some hoops to do that simple maintenance or life extending procedure...

And if you do it without jumping through some said hoops, they might have made it illegal for you to do so, turning you into a criminal for doing so...

Just some things to think about...If I was a gun-control person, that is what I would push for as an added bonus...Got to keep you gun nuts in check!

[lrb111]

imo, there are other real problems with these massive databases and "matches". For example, the lab investigator is aware that there maybe a match to say 11 guns, they know of. Now, the investigator feels the pressure to chose one of those in the database as a true match.
Forced errors result.
While the bullet/cartridge may have commonality with all those 11, it probably has a commonality with many more, and may be a from a gun not even in the database. pretty poor system for "clearing crimes", imo.

[frankie_the_yankee]

In addition to all of the other valid points that have been raised, there is the fact that unlike actual fingerprints, which never change, so-called "ballistic fingerprints" change as the gun experiences normal wear and tear. Every time you fore it, the barrel, breechface, chamber, and firing pin experience wear where their surfaces make contact with either the bullet or the case.

Over time, the fine details in the bullet and case markings left by these pieces will change.

The reason ballistic matching to a given gun as practiced by the police is as successful as it is is because the weapon believed to be linked to the crime is generally recovered before very many more rounds are fired through it.

This is very different than submitting a fired bullet and case from a new gun, and then coming up with a possible crime scene "match" 3 years later, after a few thousand rounds have been put through the gun.

The bottom line is that the term "ballistic fingerprint" is one of those misleading terms invented by the gun ban lobby (like "assault weapon") to obscure the true purpose of these databases to the general public.

[yerasimos]

I think part of the fetish for ballistic databases is that it is another venue for scoring political points over gun owners and their political allies. It also seems to neatly tie-in with the collectivists' fantasies of firearm registration and confiscation.

For the reasons Frankie and others have explained, ballistic "fingerprints" cannot and will not, by themselves, solve crimes. I suspect much of the relationship between ballistic fingerprinting and criminal conviction is the suspect is identified/found separate from the firearm, but an "expert witness" comes along later to testify (testi-lie?) that a particular casing or bullet came from a particular gun, which is somehow linked to the suspect. I see a lot of room for sloppiness there.