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Ok, guys and gal's here's my delima and maybe someone here has some sage advice.

I'm looking to goto either a: Police academy or b: fbi academy

I've done submitted for the FBI online resumes and background stuff and all that so hopefully all is good there.
Now i've had a phone conversation today with a woman from the feds in regards to prior training in which I have none. She stopped me there and basically lets say took me from being a senior down to a kindergardner.

I've never shoot at moving targets, I've never been in a shoot house under stress, I've never laid down and rolled in the dirt firing a pistol or rifle, shoot from a car nope. Done any quick shot traing nope. Which I hoped I would learn from either academy but now i'm thinking maybe I need some before traning before I goto either course. I've shot rifels for years shot pistols for years all in all shooting wise about 20 years total. But left me thinking after talking to her about the high stress jobs that I may get into with them that I basically know nothing truly about the pistols or rifles that i have. meaning how to properly use said weapons to protect and defend in a tool sense.

So my question is should i goto something like T.I.G.E.R. Valley for a pistol/carbine course or TEXAS CQB and get info and training on proper and real teaching on all of this first before I satrt all this stuff or should I simply goto either academy and start from there.

Has anyone been to either course and can you all tell me which is better or worse and or more informative. Are the facilitys truly worth the money, do you build friendships there and real world skills and are they fu as they seem?

It's just sad to think that after all these years and yes I will gladly admitt that I thought no matter what happened in my home or to myself on the streets that I would come out victorious and protect my family with the knowledge that I have.

Yet I have no knowledge and now realise that if someone on the streets attacked me even with my carry gun of 4 years having sticking with after trying multiple others i'm prolly dead. If someone broke into my home day or night and assulted my family were all dead and prolly some neighbors too because of using ar-15 wrong way or having wrong ammo or not taking time to think about whats behind what so others arent harmed. All of this due to lack of real training and shooting knowledge of ballistics and weapons function and useage as a tool for life saving.

How may others here have truly sat down for hours and really thought this out and told themselves that wow I actually have no clue on how to properly deploy my weapon.

Well if you havent feel free to write me and i'll give you a number you can call to get slapped in the head and told to wake up and smell the coffee. Cause I sure as heck just had a huge wake up call.

Try not to feel too bad. FBI agents are the law-enforcement equivalent of the first string of the Dallas Cowboys or New York Yankees. It's the top of the profession.

Being an FBI agent is also about a lot more than shooting. They do computer research, forensic accounting, foreign surveillance, undercover work, all kinds of exotic activities.

There seem to be a few Texas police agencies willing to send you to the academy if you meet their basic qualifications.

- Jim

Am I correct that the FBI requires a college degree or is that just the TV image?

Training with weapons and defensive tactics is indeed important, however this is only a small part of what you would learn at a police academy or the FBI academy. If you are interested in becomming a law enforcement office, most police departments will not hold this lack of training against you during the application procces. I have no knowledge of the FBI process.

If you are simply wanting the training there are plenty of quality private training facilities out there.

Oldgringo wrote:Am I correct that the FBI requires a college degree or is that just the TV image?

Every law enforcement new-hire position requires at least an associate degree.

FBI agents must have at least a bachelor degree, preferably some kind of advanced degree:
http://www.fbi.gov/employment/booklet/general.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

scootergeek wrote:Ok, guys and gal's here's my delima and maybe someone here has some sage advice.

I'm looking to goto either a: Police academy or b: fbi academy

I've done submitted for the FBI online resumes and background stuff and all that so hopefully all is good there.
Now i've had a phone conversation today with a woman from the feds in regards to prior training in which I have none. She stopped me there and basically lets say took me from being a senior down to a kindergardner.

I've never shoot at moving targets, I've never been in a shoot house under stress, I've never laid down and rolled in the dirt firing a pistol or rifle, shoot from a car nope. Done any quick shot traing nope. Which I hoped I would learn from either academy but now i'm thinking maybe I need some before traning before I goto either course. I've shot rifels for years shot pistols for years all in all shooting wise about 20 years total. But left me thinking after talking to her about the high stress jobs that I may get into with them that I basically know nothing truly about the pistols or rifles that i have. meaning how to properly use said weapons to protect and defend in a tool sense.

So my question is should i goto something like T.I.G.E.R. Valley for a pistol/carbine course or TEXAS CQB and get info and training on proper and real teaching on all of this first before I satrt all this stuff or should I simply goto either academy and start from there.

Has anyone been to either course and can you all tell me which is better or worse and or more informative. Are the facilitys truly worth the money, do you build friendships there and real world skills and are they fu as they seem?

It's just sad to think that after all these years and yes I will gladly admitt that I thought no matter what happened in my home or to myself on the streets that I would come out victorious and protect my family with the knowledge that I have.

Yet I have no knowledge and now realise that if someone on the streets attacked me even with my carry gun of 4 years having sticking with after trying multiple others i'm prolly dead. If someone broke into my home day or night and assulted my family were all dead and prolly some neighbors too because of using ar-15 wrong way or having wrong ammo or not taking time to think about whats behind what so others arent harmed. All of this due to lack of real training and shooting knowledge of ballistics and weapons function and useage as a tool for life saving.

How may others here have truly sat down for hours and really thought this out and told themselves that wow I actually have no clue on how to properly deploy my weapon

Well if you havent feel free to write me and i'll give you a number you can call to get slapped in the head and told to wake up and smell the coffee. Cause I sure as heck just had a huge wake up call.

I have attended the FBI National Academy and taught for many years at a county police academy, so I've got an idea of what these programs are about.

Other than former military or law enforcement personnel, few people going into either academy have advanced training in combat use of firearms. Law enforcement training is designed to take recruits from a base standard starting point to field competence during the course of the program.

Any realistic training you take (e.g. Tiger Valley programs) will be helpful and will give you a leg up in the academies, but not having done so is not a barrier to entry. The son of one of my best friends joined the FBI without ever having discharged a firearm in his life. He is now a highly successful agent in one of the most active FBI offices in the country.

As SeamusTx pointed out, shooting is only a very small (although important) part of law enforcement. Most of the work on the streets is done with your brain rather than your gun.

Don't be discouraged by that one conversation. Speak to recruiters at a variety of agencies. I think you'll come away with a much different impression of what it takes to succeed in the profession.

Go FBI and get assigned to the X-Files
(sorry i have no relevant advice to give)

Thanks guys, for all the responses. Yeah I know theres much more to becoming an officer or agent than just shooting and probably shooting is the last thing I should be concerned with.

I'm gonna go ahead and sign up for the carbine 1 course at tiger valley and go from there just to have a lil edge into all of this. This is all gonna be a money pit and stressful throughout this process.

Head strong I will carry on.

seamusTX wrote: There seem to be a few Texas police agencies willing to send you to the academy if you meet their basic qualifications.

- Jim

You know of any off hand? That would be a huge financial burden lifted.

seamusTX wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:Am I correct that the FBI requires a college degree or is that just the TV image?

Every law enforcement new-hire position requires at least an associate degree.

FBI agents must have at least a bachelor degree, preferably some kind of advanced degree:
http://www.fbi.gov/employment/booklet/general.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

IMHO, that is as it should be.

I don't know if it is still true, but it used to be that quite of few FBI agents had law degrees or advanced accounting degrees - many of them before joining the FBI. Many others were transferees from other agencies, and already have at least some experience as LEOs. That meant that the FBI could be picky about who they hired. I have no idea if the FBI is still that picky.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I don't know if it is still true, but it used to be that quite of few FBI agents had law degrees or advanced accounting degrees - many of them before joining the FBI. Many others were transferees from other agencies, and already have at least some experience as LEOs. That meant that the FBI could be picky about who they hired. I have no idea if the FBI is still that picky.

This is still correct. I have a friend in the academy now and he is a CPA with 10 years of public accounting experience. Most of his class mates are attorneys, accountants, police or military.

They are picky in this over-educated market. It would require some special circumstances or extraordinary experience to get into the bureau without at least a bachelors degree. Moreover, there are entrance exams given in phases. They will assess your ability to problem solve and will test for lateral thinking ability (My first job out of college was as a Psychometrician). Regardless of whether your interested in LEO or FBI, a bachelors degree is always a good idea. It gives you options in the event you change your mind or can't cut the mustard in the government sector (there's always the private sector)

scootergeek wrote:

seamusTX wrote: There seem to be a few Texas police agencies willing to send you to the academy if you meet their basic qualifications.

- Jim

You know of any off hand? That would be a huge financial burden lifted.

I find this to be a good source of Texas Police Departments that are hiring:

http://tml.associationcareernetwork.com ... x?abbr=TML

Be prepared for a lengthy process. I strongly recommend going on some ride alongs before you commit to this career path.

Well, my first impression was that you were asking the wrong question, or the right question for the wrong reasons. If the choice is between police and FBI, it has nothing to do with the tactical shooting training. If the question is about getting better shooting training, it should be for personal improvement.

While I do always recommend training for shooters and tactical situations, I cannot tell you which of the shooting schools is better. I can give you my opinions on law enforcement careers. Having spent most of my career in local law enforcement, and now working for the state, my opinions will reflect that background.

The FBI is not necessarily the best of the law enforcement field, though they have that reputation with the public. Most street cops will tell you they do not care for the FBI or the way they work. They also do not see the FBI as the top of law enforcement, sometimes not even seeing them as cops. In my opinion, the best cops wear uniforms, drive marked cars, and answer 911 calls. But the FBI is very good and one of the hardest agencies to get into. They require at least a bachelor's degree. They used to also require three years of field experience but I think this has been dropped. Their preferences for a degree are law, accounting, and computer science though that order changes around sometimes. Most of their work is white collar investigative work. They do have field offices around the world now, and some get very deeply into the nitty gritty of organized crime. I don't know how old you are, but federal law enforcement does have a very strict age cutoff of 21 minimum and 37 maximum.

Local and state police departments vary in the work they do and their requirements. There are agencies that will hire you with a high school diploma and put you though a police academy but it is very competitive. One example of this is San Antonio Police Department. Their requirements for getting hired are fairly easy to meet, but they also get around 3000 applications for each academy class of 100 people. Most of Texas is moving towards requiring college such as DPS requiring 45 hours (though it might have gone up to an A.A.). Many small towns will take anything they can get but require a police license already. Almost every major department that hires you will put you through their police academy. Not only is this at no expense to you (nominally, you usually end up buying supplies and uniforms and equipment) but you get paid while you are in the academy. The other way is to pay your own way through a local police academy. This costs about $1500 right now at most academies, plus the same expenses I mentioned above. And, you don't get paid in the academy or even have a guarantee of a job when you are done. With the shortage of officers around the state, finding a job should not be too hard. Finding a GOOD job is a little harder of course.

None of the local academies or police departments will look too hard at your firearms training. Some would even prefer you not have any so they can teach you their way without having to change old habits. I know of quite a few police officers who had never fired any type of firearm before entering their academy.

So, for the law enforcement question, the real question is what type of work do you want to do? General patrol is usually a local police or county sheriff department. Traffic patrol is the domain of the DPS, but many larger local departments will have a traffic section. Detective work on organized crime and major crime is the FBI and some state departments, though again, major local departments will have units for this too. Less significant crime is solved at the local agency. And some specific crimes are almost exclusively the local police detectives. Two good examples are homicide and sex crimes. Specialized departments exist too. For example, TABC deals primarily with the liquor industry, but can get involved in some very major crimes that occur on licensed premises. Arson is almost always through a fire department or the state fire marshal's office. Felon apprehension is the specialty of the US Marshal's Office. Border Patrol and Customs are specialties, as is DEA (they try to go after the big guys and let the local PD detectives handle the street level dealers and users).

And then there are the very obscure specialties, like the horse race stewards, water board, pharmacy board investigators, etc. Most of them look for experience in law enforcement so they can teach you their specialty.

Sorry if I get long winded on this or took it to a different level than you were looking for. The last peice of advice on law enforcement as a career is to remember that it is not a final decision. You can go with the FBI and then change your mind to go local, or vice versa. Good luck with your decision.