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As its been said it happens so fast allways be in condition yellow.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/09/ ... in_gan.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WARNING GRAPHIC VIOLENCE.

Keith wrote:As its been said it happens so fast allways be in condition yellow.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/09/ ... in_gan.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This could also be entitled: "Why Gangbangers Don't Need Retirement Plans"

ummmm WARNING GRAPHIC VIOLENCE.
As in, guy being shot multiple times, several in the head.
(As opposed to guy quickly and unexpectedly slapped silly with a bouquet of daisies)

That was a bit more than I expected to see...

Excaliber wrote:

Keith wrote:As its been said it happens so fast allways be in condition yellow.

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2010/09/ ... in_gan.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This could also be entitled: "Why Gangbangers Don't Need Retirement Plans"

So... after seeing that, does anyone see the need for a 100% reliable gun?

MadMonkey wrote:So... after seeing that, does anyone see the need for a 100% reliable gun?

No gun is 100% reliable. Part of anyones training should be clearing a malfunction quickly. Tap, rack, bang.
Even a revolver may not be 100% reliable all the time. Ammunition that doesn't fire, cylinder goes out of timing, mechanical fouling due to debris.

Primary reason I carry multiple magazines, its one of the fastest ways to get a malfunctioning auto back into service.

Granted, with a revolver, the odds of a malfunction are much lower...

Keith wrote:As its been said it happens so fast allways be in condition yellow.

The guy in the lobby wearing the white hat did good. He saw the problem, made a plan, and executed the plan.

Ameer wrote:

Keith wrote:As its been said it happens so fast allways be in condition yellow.

The guy in the lobby wearing the white hat did good. He saw the problem, made a plan, and executed the plan.

In layman's terms: he ran like heck!

Ameer wrote:

Keith wrote:As its been said it happens so fast allways be in condition yellow.

The guy in the lobby wearing the white hat did good. He saw the problem, made a plan, and executed the plan.

Unlike the idiot who actually came INTO the mall at 35 seconds knowing what was going on and skirting the wall to go right past it. What was he thinking?!

Two points that stand out to me: If he had not pulled out his own gun, he might have survived. After their gun jammed, they used his to kill him. He either needed to get much faster and better shot placement in once it was drawn from lying down or he might have fought them off long enough to get their gun (he was doing a good job) or to make them flee, but puling it out and quickly being disarmed is what cost him his life. (Speaking in the short term context of this gun fight. Long-term it was his gang involvement, but I don't really need to learn not to be in a gang so that's rather moot.)

And, he was shot numerous times including a direct shot in the head and he still fought hard enough that they couldn't get his hands off their gun for quite some time. Even as they laid rounds into him as they fled, his leg still slid with what appeared to be his last intentional movements. That's a lot of fight left in a man after he is fatally shot!

jamisjockey wrote:

MadMonkey wrote:So... after seeing that, does anyone see the need for a 100% reliable gun?

No gun is 100% reliable. Part of anyones training should be clearing a malfunction quickly. Tap, rack, bang.
Even a revolver may not be 100% reliable all the time. Ammunition that doesn't fire, cylinder goes out of timing, mechanical fouling due to debris.

Primary reason I carry multiple magazines, its one of the fastest ways to get a malfunctioning auto back into service.

Granted, with a revolver, the odds of a malfunction are much lower...

That's why I said the "need" for one...

I believe the best thing we can learn from this video is handgun retention and certainly practicing your draw from unconventional positions. If the gun had been in a holster instead of just his waistband he might have been able to get it out much much quicker and not get caught up on his pants.

Also you can never run too many scenarios through your head. So, what would some of you done had you been in this situation as the victim or maybe even just a bystander in a position to help that might have given a different outcome to this??

I personally have to different modes of thinking about scenarios, by myself or with the wife and kids. If I had been by myself and in a position to engage I believe I might have. It happened quick, but not so quick that you couldn't have drawn and engaged the shooters. Now if my wife and kids are with me their safety is priority #1.

Definitely a lot to learn by watching this.

Carry Big Stick wrote:I believe the best thing we can learn from this video is handgun retention and certainly practicing your draw from unconventional positions. If the gun had been in a holster instead of just his waistband he might have been able to get it out much much quicker and not get caught up on his pants.
Also you can never run too many scenarios through your head. So, what would some of you done had you been in this situation as the victim or maybe even just a bystander in a position to help that might have given a different outcome to this??

I personally have to different modes of thinking about scenarios, by myself or with the wife and kids. If I had been by myself and in a position to engage I believe I might have. It happened quick, but not so quick that you couldn't have drawn and engaged the shooters. Now if my wife and kids are with me their safety is priority #1.

Excellent point! I'm not sure when the last time I've drawn from sitting on the floor was. I think I'll make safe and practice that exact thing later today.

Rewatched the video. When he first bursts through the doors, he sprawls out on his back. Exactly what I tell people is my objection to SOB carry...

Carry Big Stick wrote: If I had been by myself and in a position to engage I believe I might have. It happened quick, but not so quick that you couldn't have drawn and engaged the shooters. Now if my wife and kids are with me their safety is priority #1.

I personally don't think I would have engaged. We all know now that it was a gang confrontation. Would you have been able to ascertain that had you been inside and seen them come through the door? What if the guy we are now calling the victim had just actually tried to rob the other two and it went bad? By shooting the other two in that scenario, you just became an accomplice.

As cruel as it may sound, I'm all for letting gangstas remove each other from the gene pool. If I just happened to come in and seen the whole thing from the start (outside), I may come just the slightest bit closer to getting involved but still leaning way towards NO.

If they came in firing randomly at people, then the game is on. I'm not saying you are wrong CBS, I just don't think you thought it through. Do you really want to possibly spend a night in jail with the very good possibility that you will be spending it with friends of the guys you shot? On the other hand there may be some friends of the guy you saved. I don't know about you but my luck never works out that way.

All 3 involved in that fracas were just plain, harsh.