Traveling with gun...TSA experience this week

[kyreb]

My son is USCG stationed in Clearwater. The year (2004) he joined up I gave him a Bushmaster 20" HBAR AR15 I had assembled from parts. He has had a great career so far. He just qualified as a Flight Mechanic on his helicopter and does search and rescue work. For those unfamiliar with this, he preps the bird for flight, monitors the various systems while in flight and works the hoist for the swimmer/basket on rescues.
So based on this accomplishment, I decided to upgrade him to a more modern, M4 type carbine with Eotech sight and other assorted toys. I took this rifle over to him last week and planned to bring his old HBAR back to Houston for some upgrades.
For the flight over, I took a sturdy, hard plastic rifle case I use for 3 gun. I took a plastic coated cable, ran to through the action and around the middle hinge on the case. I topped this off with a good heavy duty master lock and closed the case. No way this rifle was going to be separated from the case without a pair of bolt cutters. Next I closed the case and topped it off with the required TSA lock. (These are little "toy" locks that could easily be defeated with a pair of small diagonal cutting pliers.)
Flew over and back on Southwest. At the counters, the Southwest people were great. At both Hobby and Tampa they could not have been more gracious and did not bat an eyeball over the EBR. At Hobby, the SW folks took the guncase with my other luggage and away we went. No problem. In Tampa however, they advised I had to accompany a SW baggage guy over to TSA to check the rifle in with them.
Those TSA folks had a real attitude. They refused to take the gun case because it was "not secured properly". They told me I had to have TSA locks at every point in the case where a lock could be placed. (Three total on this case, one at the handle and on each end.) I politely advised the agent of my interior cable and lock set up and asked the agent to open the case and see for himself. He refused. I asked to talk to his supervisor and was told the same thing. She also refused to open the case to even look at my security set up. They finally advised they were more afraid someone could slip something "inside" the case with my rifle than they were my rifle would be stolen. This was a real WTH moment for me.

At this point I was pretty PO'ed but knew they were probably ready to slap the cuffs on this "Texas cracker with a gun" if I gave them the slightest reason. I kept quiet.

Fortunately, I was able to leave the gun there with TSA and wife overseeing, while I ran upstairs and found a shop selling the TSA approved toy locks. $25 and two more toy locks later, they accepted the case for the flight. We made our flight, but my rifle did not. It floated around as a "lost luggage" claim for an additional 24 hours. I had given up on ever seeing it again when it was finally delivered to my home in Houston yesterday.

Lessons learned.....(1) TSA interprets their regs far differently at different airports. (2) Next time I travel with a gun I will drive.

[jordanmills]

You aren't supposed to use the TSA locks on firearms baggage, IIRC. They don't trust their own people enough for that.

[ELB]

You aren't supposed to use the TSA locks on firearms baggage, IIRC. They don't trust their own people enough for that.

That used to be true, but not any more. It changed last year sometime. You can still use your own lock, but you can also use the TSA ones now. Me, I will keep using my own. no telling how many TSA master keys are floating around.

WRT to the OP: the TSA reg says (paraphrasing) a case must be sturdy enough that you can't pry it open a corner when it is locked. If your rifle case could be properly secured with one lock, then it seems to me it should have been OK, but somebody at that airport probably told them there has to be a lock in each hole, so turn off the brain.

Like I said, no telling how many TSA master keys are floating around -- you can bet that al Qaeda and their ilk came up with one long ago -- so slipping something into your rifle case would have been no problem. "Security theater" indeed.

[kyreb]

What substance would they be so concerned someone was going to slip into the case? This is a head scratcher for me. Any type of contraband could be added to any other suitcase.....why is a firearm case different? Absolutely no way to get that gun operational without bolt cutters at minimum. The bad guy would need a magazine and ammo as well.....

[The Annoyed Man]

Lessons learned.....(1) TSA interprets their regs far differently at different airports. (2) Next time I travel with a gun I will drive.

My guess is that TSA agents at airports tend to be recruited/hired from the local population, and as such, they tend to possess whatever the predominant local attitude happens to be toward guns.... ...although I confess that I know nothing about Clearwater Florida. So not only is there the tendency of any large organization to not interpret regulations consistently from one location to another, you've also got some people in some places who are on a personal mission to make it as hard as possible for you to travel with a gun, and others who couldn't care less in other places.

My wife and I have decided that we'll just not going to fly anywhere unless we absolutely cannot get to where we want to be by road. There just isn't anyplace that we have to get to that taking 2 or 3 days to get there isn't acceptable, and there isn't any place in the U.S. outside of Alaska and Hawaii that is more than a 2 or 3 day drive away. Flying just isn't worth the hassles anymore. I don't feel compelled to go to Hawaii, and I can get to Alaska by car. I don't have any particular animus against TSA employees individually. I am sure that they, for the most part, are just trying to do their jobs to the level and quality of their training. But as an organization, it is utterly moronic, and it is one of the most flagrant examples of "mission creep" there is in the federal government (which is, itself, a perfect example of mission creep).

[stevie_d_64]

Yep, I get the same vibe...I think the airlines are actually not the real issue in this deal...

Since I flew last weekend, I never had to do anything but hold muh pants up while the TSA backscattered me on the way up to the Big D, and x-ray me on the way back...No groping, because I figured they didn't know I had a gun in my checked bag...I think if they did, it would have been the nth degree with these knuckleheads...

Not sure I dig the fact that they like to pilfer through your wallet and ask innocuous questions while they are doing it, right after the contents of my pockets have been x-rayed (screened)...

[C-dub]

I must be a little slow on the uptake tonight. Why didn't you have to use an FFL for this transfer? This was out of state, right?

[RHenriksen]

You aren't supposed to use the TSA locks on firearms baggage, IIRC. They don't trust their own people enough for that.

That used to be true, but not any more. It changed last year sometime. You can still use your own lock, but you can also use the TSA ones now.

This is new information to me. Do you have a link to the new regulations?

[RHenriksen]

Oh, and this is what I use when checking a firearm. I don't own an AR yet, so I'm not sure if it would accommodate one; I'm sure it would have to be broken down into upper & lower, though. Have yet to have a problem with security that couldn't be overcome w. a smile & a request for a supervisor.

[Pawpaw]

I must be a little slow on the uptake tonight. Why didn't you have to use an FFL for this transfer? This was out of state, right?

I'm guessing that since his son is in the military he's still a Texas resident, merely stationed in Florida.

I spent just over 22 years in the USAF, but remained a Texas resident no matter where I was stationed.

[C-dub]

I must be a little slow on the uptake tonight. Why didn't you have to use an FFL for this transfer? This was out of state, right?

I'm guessing that since his son is in the military he's still a Texas resident, merely stationed in Florida.

I spent just over 22 years in the USAF, but remained a Texas resident no matter where I was stationed.

Could be. Hmmm.

[Trinitite]

Not sure I dig the fact that they like to pilfer through your wallet and ask innocuous questions while they are doing it, right after the contents of my pockets have been x-rayed (screened)...

When did they start pawing through wallets? If they want to play Gestapo, I might be tempted to play La Résistance when I returned home safely from my trip.

[MadMonkey]

Not sure I dig the fact that they like to pilfer through your wallet

Whaaaaat? I've never heard that one...

[kyreb]

I must be a little slow on the uptake tonight. Why didn't you have to use an FFL for this transfer? This was out of state, right?

I'm guessing that since his son is in the military he's still a Texas resident, merely stationed in Florida.

I spent just over 22 years in the USAF, but remained a Texas resident no matter where I was stationed.

This.

[E.Marquez]

You aren't supposed to use the TSA locks on firearms baggage, IIRC. They don't trust their own people enough for that.

That used to be true, but not any more. It changed last year sometime. You can still use your own lock, but you can also use the TSA ones now.

This is new information to me. Do you have a link to the new regulations?

As of 21 NOV 2010 when I received an official response from TSA, the policy remains, the locked container must be accessible only to the owner (ie traveler).
"

Thank you for your e-mail message concerning the checked baggage screening process and how it affects passengers carrying firearms in checked baggage.

On flights that originate in the U.S. passengers can transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR §1540.111 under the following conditions:

. the firearm must be unloaded;
. it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage;
. it must be in a locked hard-sided container; and
. it must be declared to the airline.

If these conditions are met, the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law to electronically screen all checked baggage that goes aboard a commercial passenger flight. If electronic screening cannot verify that a bag and its contents are safe to bring onboard the flight, TSOs will inspect the bag by hand. TSA, therefore, encourages (but does not require) passengers to keep their checked bags unlocked to facilitate the process and reduce the need to break locks.

TSA recommends that you place the locked hard-sided container with the firearm inside a suitcase or other bag before you check it with your airline. This will allow you to leave your suitcase unlocked but also to comply with the requirement that the firearm be in a locked container.

You can use a hard-sided locked suitcase as the sole container for your firearm. However, this can lead to one of the two following complications if your bag needs to be inspected by hand:

. If the TSOs can determine from the screening equipment that the bag contains a firearm, they will not open it. They will instead attempt to locate you and obtain the key or combination so that they can inspect the bag. If they cannot locate you, the bag will not be allowed onboard the aircraft.

. If the TSOs do not see that the bag contains a firearm before they open it, they may force open the lock and proceed to inspect the bag. Once the lock is forced open, the bag cannot be allowed on an aircraft until it is relocked. TSA will attempt to locate you and make suitable arrangements.

These potential inconveniences can be avoided by following TSA's recommendation that you pack your firearm by itself in a separate, hard-sided, locked container and pack the container inside your suitcase. If TSOs need to open your bag to inspect it, they will be able to do so with out breaking a lock on the bag.

Once the TSOs open the bag, they will see the declaration in your suitcase and will not open the locked container encasing the firearm. They will proceed to search the bag, close it, and (presuming the bag is free of prohibited items) will be able to allow it onboard your flight.

We encourage you to visit our website at http://www.tsa.gov" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for additional information about TSA. We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.


TSA Contact Center

And
from the current TSA web site

Traveling with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you.

Bottom line, TSA locks should NOT BE USED, and if used directly violate the regulations and TSA guidance provided.

Having the TSA web site guidance, a copy of the regulations and a copy of the airline policy for traveling with firearms on your person stored with your
carry on is greatly recommended. It has saved me several times now from unneeded hassle with ignorant airline and TSA employees.