Shotguns, barrel length, and laws?

[Scott in Houston]

Question, is it legal in Texas to "saw off" a barrel? Is there a minimum barrel length like there is for rifles?

2nd Question, how hard is it to 'saw' your barrel? Do I get a gun smith?

[74novaman]

There is a federal limit of 18 inches. If you go shorter than that, you have to apply for a $200 permit from the atf for a Short Barreled Shotgun, or SBS.

As long as you have the tax stamp and federal paperwork, a shorter barrel is legal in Texas. WITH THE PROPER PAPERWORK. Can't emphasize that enough...if you take a hacksaw to a shotgun and take it down to 14 inches, you're inviting yourself to a nice vacation in a federal pen.

[MoJo]

There is a federal limit of 18 inches. If you go shorter than that, you have to apply for a $200 permit from the atf for a Short Barreled Shotgun, or SBS.

As long as you have the tax stamp and federal paperwork, a shorter barrel is legal in Texas. WITH THE PROPER PAPERWORK. Can't emphasize that enough...if you take a hacksaw to a shotgun and take it down to 14 inches, you're inviting yourself to a nice vacation in a federal pen.

You MUST have the paperwork BEFORE doing the modifications IIRC. There is also a minimum overall length regardless of barrel also.

[Scott in Houston]

Gotcha. Thanks.

I'll just keep my 870 as-is.

How do those little "snake charmer" .410 side-by-side guns get away with it? Is it because they're a 'pistol' or handgun not a long gun?

[A-R]

related, but I've always wondered how pistol grip shotguns fit into all of this? Still must have 18-inch-plus barrel? Taurus Judge gets around this because it's a rifled pistol barrel too, correct (and just happens to be able to also fire .410 shotgun shells)?

basically any smooth bore firearm with barrel less than 18 inches regardless of shoulder stock vs. pistol grip is illegal under Fed and State laws without proper tax stamp paperwork etc., correct?

What is the minimum overall length? If a basic pump shotgun has 18 inch barrel I'm guessing you add about 5 inches for receiver and another inch or two for the grip = ~ 25 inches?

[bigred90gt]

I believe the overall length is 26" minimum and barrel length is 18" minimum. Barrel length is measured with the action closed, down through the barrel, against the breech face. Feds use a dowel, I used an old golf club shaft I had laying around. Either way, it is the same purpose.

As for cutting the barrel, it can be done with a hack-saw (which I did) but it is a workout. I was going to use a dremel with a cutting wheel, but the steel is so hard, it ate through a couple of cutting wheels before ever even penetrating through the wall of the barrel. I decided I would use a hack saw instead, and while I did, I would not suggest it. Just make absolutely sure you do not cut below the 18" minimum. I was planning to go 18.5", but the sight ribs were spaced where it was either barely make 18", or go a little over 19". I chose the latter option just to be safe. Once it was cut, I de-burred it and put a nice radius on it with a grinding bit on my dremel, then smoothed it over with a flapper wheel, and blued it with one of those cheap gun blue touch up pens. Unless you look really hard, it is hard to tell.

[doc540]

What he said.

Just work slowly and use a fresh, sharp hacksaw blade.

Van's cold blue is the best I've found yet.

[pcgizzmo]

As soon as this is available I'm getting one. It's legal as far as everything I have read. Holds 14 rounds

http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/previ ... hotgun-ksg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[74novaman]

related, but I've always wondered how pistol grip shotguns fit into all of this? Still must have 18-inch-plus barrel?

Basically, the barrel length is the important part, so yes, a standard shotgun originally sold as a shotgun must retain its 18 inch length.

That being said, there is an exception. If a receiver has never been "made" as a shotgun, you can put a pistol grip and a short barrel on it and classify it as an Any Other Weapon, which still requires paperwork, but only a $5 dollar fee instead of a $200 dollar one.

Example: http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

I'm pretty sure you could not put a stock on it though, or then it would be considered a SBS instead of an AOW.

How's that for gun laws that make sense?

[The Annoyed Man]

Gotcha. Thanks.

I'll just keep my 870 as-is.

How do those little "snake charmer" .410 side-by-side guns get away with it? Is it because they're a 'pistol' or handgun not a long gun?

They only get away with it in certain states. The Taurus "Judge" for instance is illegal in California because they define it as a short barreled shotgun rather than as a pistol that can handle a shot shell.

[zero4o3]

Gotcha. Thanks.

I'll just keep my 870 as-is.

How do those little "snake charmer" .410 side-by-side guns get away with it? Is it because they're a 'pistol' or handgun not a long gun?

They only get away with it in certain states. The Taurus "Judge" for instance is illegal in California because they define it as a short barreled shotgun rather than as a pistol that can handle a shot shell.

thats not a good example, everythigns illegal in california

[The Annoyed Man]

thats not a good example, everythigns illegal in california

You have a point. Except you left out Marijuana. That's for all practical purposes legal. Crazy world, isn't it?

[hirundo82]

Gotcha. Thanks.

I'll just keep my 870 as-is.

How do those little "snake charmer" .410 side-by-side guns get away with it? Is it because they're a 'pistol' or handgun not a long gun?

They have to conform with the federal length minima (18" barrel, 26" overall) as well. The Taurus Judge and similar aren't shotguns because they are rifled; they are .45LC pistols that can accept a shotgun shell. Smooth bore pistols are by definition AOWs (Any Other Weapon) per the National Firearms Act.

related, but I've always wondered how pistol grip shotguns fit into all of this? Still must have 18-inch-plus barrel? Taurus Judge gets around this because it's a rifled pistol barrel too, correct (and just happens to be able to also fire .410 shotgun shells)?

basically any smooth bore firearm with barrel less than 18 inches regardless of shoulder stock vs. pistol grip is illegal under Fed and State laws without proper tax stamp paperwork etc., correct?

The ATF decided a couple years ago that PGO shotguns, along with items such as stripped AR-15 lowers, are not long guns under the '68 GCA (since they aren't designed to be fired from the shoulder) and thus may only be sold by an FFL to persons over the age of 21. They are classified as an "Other Firearm" (still Title I, not requiring a tax stamp) and are designated as such on the 4473.

Since the 18" barrel length restriction in the NFA only applies to shotguns, some people thought that they could now install barrel shorter than 18" as long as the overall length remained above 26" (any shorter and it would be an AOW), and the ATF agreed with this interpretation

Please note that this only applies to a shotgun originally sold with a pistol grip, or as a stripped reciever. If it has ever had a buttstock installed it is forever a shotgun and you can't shorten the barrel below 18" without a tax stamp.

[Rex B]

It's an 870. Just buy a 18.5" barrel for it, $100.

then you are good for doves or do-bads

[glbedd53]

I have cut off several 12ga shotguns (no vent rib) and tubing cutter works great. Leaves a little bur inside, rat tail file gets rid of that. Use a lot of grease around the barrel and the cutter won't scratch the blue.