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Just curious if any of you guys have some kind of blank form you fill out to document the sale of used gun for your personal records. If not, what would you include in it (Serial number, buyer signature, seller signature, date........) Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

RedRaider wrote:Just curious if any of you guys have some kind of blank form you fill out to document the sale of used gun for your personal records. If not, what would you include in it (Serial number, buyer signature, seller signature, date........) Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

If I am buying Face to Face and not from a dealer, I would not sign anything for you, nor would I provide you with ID. I might show you my DL so you could see that I was Texas resident, but you would not copy any data from it.

TX, what do you do when you sell a used gun? Verify they are TX resident? Do you keep anything for your personal records?

RedRaider wrote:TX, what do you do when you sell a used gun? Verify they are TX resident? Do you keep anything for your personal records?

I have never sold to someone I didn't know, except once at a gun show. It was to a dealer who wanted it for his personal carry gun. I asked him if he was a Texas resident and if he was prohibited by law from possessing a handgun.

I did not keep any records.

Here is a link to the ATF regarding FTF sales;

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b16

In Texas all you really NEED to do is exchange cash/items and shake hands.

Bamboo-
I agree that the things you mentioned are all that is necessary to sell a weapon, but far from everything that you need (to stay out of jail)!

I would need to have no reason to believe that the person would be in a legal violation for receiving the firearm. If I do not know them to be in violation...it is not my duty to investigate. OTOH, if you knowingly sell a gun to a prohibited person...it is a crime for both parties. The link that TXI provided goes into the exact details of who can receive the gun.

To avoid this, I sell few guns and even fewer to people I don't know

Thanks guys. I think I have a buyer lined up who has a CHL, that gives me some comfort that I'm not selling to someone prohibited from buying firearms. That was really my main concern, I never sold a gun before.

I won't sell a gun without getting a DL or other acceptable ID with name, DL number, address, age.

If the gun gets used in a crime, it would be traced back to me.... and I want to be able to point the investigator to the person I sold it to.

Several times at gun shows I have had people who were squirlly about providing identification... as a result they didn't get the gun... no ID=NO SALE to me. I have had several people try to buy from me that A I'm pretty sure were not legally eligible to make purchases... and I found that when I requested ID.

I can't see why an honest person would object to providing ID...

I certainly would not be surprised of the BATF had people trolling shows attempting to buy illegally...

FWIW

Chuck

RedRaider wrote:Just curious if any of you guys have some kind of blank form you fill out to document the sale of used gun for your personal records. If not, what would you include in it (Serial number, buyer signature, seller signature, date........) Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

lol, I was being lazy and cut out the other half of my post. That's also what I emphasized NEED in caps.

Other half:

All you NEED to do is cash and carry.

However it would be WISE to at least verify that they are legal to own a handgun in Texas (ID check for residency, 18+ for FTF). Documentation (Bill of Sale) I personally think is overkill but if the gun is ever used in a crime and the law comes knocking on your door, it could come in very handy.

cxm wrote:I won't sell a gun without getting a DL or other acceptable ID with name, DL number, address, age.

If the gun gets used in a crime, it would be traced back to me.... and I want to be able to point the investigator to the person I sold it to.

Several times at gun shows I have had people who were squirlly about providing identification... as a result they didn't get the gun... no ID=NO SALE to me. I have had several people try to buy from me that A I'm pretty sure were not legally eligible to make purchases... and I found that when I requested ID.

I can't see why an honest person would object to providing ID...

I certainly would not be surprised of the BATF had people trolling shows attempting to buy illegally...

FWIW

Chuck

RedRaider wrote:Just curious if any of you guys have some kind of blank form you fill out to document the sale of used gun for your personal records. If not, what would you include in it (Serial number, buyer signature, seller signature, date........) Any help is appreciated! Thanks.

The only way it can be traced is to the original purchaser from the FFL, and that is IF the gun is recovered.

All you have to do is tell them you sold and thats the end of. I am opposed to government registration as it is, and the 4473 and FFL's requirement to keep those records is registration.

This, "why would an honest person mind" response is unrealistic. Since you are not a person to carry cotraband, would you object to random searches by the government of your person, home and vehicle?

The only way BATFE would look for illegal sellers at shows is to buy from an FFL and not have the FFL do the 4473 or allow an obvious straw or otherwise illegal purchase.

If I am walking thru a show with a gun for sale and some UC BATFE agent wants to buy my gun, I have no requirement to check anything or do any paperwork.

I object to providing ID because it is not required. You don't need it.

I thought about this for a few minutes, and then realized I have NEVER sold a gun. I have let a few be adopted into good homes, but I have never SOLD one. Why, that would be just like selling one of the kids.

Hmm... wonder how much I could get for one of them kids?

I've wondered if there was paperwork as well.

I do a bill of sale just as i would for any item of value. shoot me a pm if you would like a blank copy of the one i use, but it just has the name and address of the buyer and seller. I usally give the other person a copy too.

I know it is not required, just good business practice. however, i fully understand why many resist the practice.

Jeff,

You are quite correct that a gun can only be traced if it is found... and very often the guns are found... we did quite a few traces for the BATF over the years.

While you are correct that you can just tell them I sold it, but I can see quite a few circumstances in which that could be most inconvenient... certainly more inconvenient than I want to put up with... basically I don't want to be the last person in the documentable chain of custody for a firearm. If you are comfortable with that no problem... I 'm not.

So it is fairly simple, if one wants to buy one of my guns they produce ID for me or an FFL. Otherwise they can take a hike.

FWIW

Chuck

Everyone has to decide the risk level the



The only way it can be traced is to the original purchaser from the FFL, and that is IF the gun is recovered.

All you have to do is tell them you sold and thats the end of. I am opposed to government registration as it is, and the 4473 and FFL's requirement to keep those records is registration.

This, "why would an honest person mind" response is unrealistic. Since you are not a person to carry cotraband, would you object to random searches by the government of your person, home and vehicle?

The only way BATFE would look for illegal sellers at shows is to buy from an FFL and not have the FFL do the 4473 or allow an obvious straw or otherwise illegal purchase.

If I am walking thru a show with a gun for sale and some UC BATFE agent wants to buy my gun, I have no requirement to check anything or do any paperwork.

I object to providing ID because it is not required. You don't need it.[/quote]

I am opposed to government registration as it is, and the 4473 and FFL's requirement to keep those records is registration.

Actually - the 4473 never leaves the FFL files (unless a firearm has been used in a crime and a copy has been requested by the BATFE) NOR is the sale ever recorded with the BATFE at any time.