Educate me about scopes

[baldeagle]

I'm beginning my first "build" of an AR-15 (buying a complete upper and complete lower), and I need to understand the purpose of scopes. I'm familiar with what I would call a traditional scope (like Leopolds), but all these new-fangled red dots and tactical scopes are a mystery.

For an AR-15 why would you buy one kind rather than the other? What's the purpose of a red dot scope? Like so many things in modern life, there's tons of choices and its hard for a non-expert to sort through them all and decide what's best to use. I would use the rifle for target practice and hog hunting. My plan is to have two uppers; a 5.56 for target practice and either a 7.62 or a 300 Blackout for hog hunting, and one lower. What's the best type of scope for those two uses? Or do I need two scopes? Why do they have illuminated scopes? Is there a scope that's better for old men with failing eyesight? Is one type better than another for close range versus long range?

Edumacate me please. I can afford to buy a scope. I can't afford to make a mistake in the scope I buy.

[Beiruty]

Ok, you have many questions, so let start. Shall we?
1) Holographic display are for the in-house and close combat engagement where one should prefer not use iron sight alignment and use both eyes and said eyes are open. No need to cheek-the rifle stock. As long as your can put the Holographic sight on your target, you are good. Said sight works well in low light as long as you can ID your target.
2) For hogs, most likely you are shooting at night and to see the cross hair you need a illuminated fire-dot or illuminated full cross-hair. At night you need to paint your target so you can see your hogs. As such, a green laser flash-light or green-laser painter with adjustable beam is needed.
3) For hogs, shooting range is usually less than 100-150 yrs so. a low variable zoom scope is best 4X-10X would be good.
4) For hogs, you may go with night-vision scope if you can afford Gen2 or Gen3 technology. It would cost $2,000-$3,000.

For target shooting any decent $400 to $800 scope from Vortex/Leupold/Bushnell/Burris would work fine. Optics clarity and low light visibility is you want. Zoom of 4.5-18X or up to 6-24X is more than enough for 100-300 yrd range.

[baldeagle]

Beiruty, you have champagne tastes and I have a beer budget. We're in different universes I'm afraid.

[A-R]

Beiruty, you have champagne tastes and I have a beer budget. We're in different universes I'm afraid.

For your stated purposes and beer budget look closely at Millet scopes, specifically their DMS 1-4x with illuminated donut/dot reticle (about $300 new, $200 or less used)

Also Nikon has come out with a new line of "AR-223" scopes that seem to be decent for the price - seen some at Wal Mart for under $200 but don't have any first-hand knowledge.

[eureka40]

If you really want to learn about scope/optics go here:

http://swfa.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

See the tabs marked Optics Talk and Sample List. The optics talk tab is a scope forum, you can learn a lot just reading there for a few days.

The sample list tab has some good deals on scopes. Demos, used, blems, etc.......

And they are in Texas!!

[baldeagle]

Thanks, guys. This has been very helpful.

[The Annoyed Man]

Thanks, guys. This has been very helpful.

baldeagle, if you're on a budget, give serious consideration to the following items (in no particular order of preference):

1. http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-Fullfield ... 48172.aspx
   Burris 1-4x24 Fullfield TAC 30 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope, $498.95
   The price includes the scope, a P.E.P.R scope mount, and a Fastfire II red dot sight
   
   Here's what the reticle looks like:
   
   If the battery runs down, you still have a reticle, but it is black instead of red. Plus, you can set the brightness when it's on. This price is a killer deal for this kind of package. If you want just the scope by itself (no mount, and no Fastfire II), it costs $298.95.
2. http://swfa.com/Burris-3x32-AR-332-Tact ... 12619.aspx
   Burris 3x32 AR 332 Tactical Sight, $348.95
   This is best described as an ACOG-like 3X fixed power prism sight.
   
   
3. http://swfa.com/Burris-5x36-AR-536-Tact ... 53472.aspx
   Burris 5x36 AR 536 Tactical Sight, $398.95
   This scope is identical to item #2 except that it is 5X instead of 3X, and the tube is 36mm instead of 32mm. This is the one I have on my own AR carbine.
4. http://swfa.com/Millett-1-4x24-DMS-SWFA ... 42148.aspx
   Millett 1-4x24 DMS / SWFA S.S.A.L.T. Combo, $249.95
   
   
5. http://swfa.com/Leatherwood-1-4x24-CMR- ... 47565.aspx
   Leatherwood 1-4x24 CMR Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope Kit, $329.95
   
   

The last one was very much liked by Gun-Tests Magazine when they tested it against the Millet scope and a Leupold Firedot scope.

Hope this helps.

[baldeagle]

Thanks, TAM. That's very helpful. I've seen you talk about the Burris before, and I've been looking at them online this evening.

[RX8er]

I have a nikon p223 on my 15 and an eotech on my 10. You are more than welcome to look at them sometime if you want.

[jimlongley]

A typical red dot sight has a dot that is one or more minutes of angle in size, not suitable for precision target shooting but fine for hogs and vermin (including two legged) but very few of them are suitable to beer budgets. Dots are much easier to see than traditional sights, and the holographic ones, being projected a virtual infinity, means not having to worry about parallax and collimation.

[OldCannon]

For your stated purposes and beer budget look closely at Millet scopes, specifically their DMS 1-4x with illuminated donut/dot reticle (about $300 new, $200 or less used)

This. Excellent value for the money.

[PBratton]

Natchez has some reburbed Nikon scopes on sale right now.

Already ordered one for my new build.

[baldeagle]

Does anybody (besides AndyC) own one of these? Bushnell TRS-25 Trophy 1x25 Red Dot Scope
Comments?

2nd question - how important is magnification for 100 yd target shooting and hog hunting?

[el_chupo_]

Does anybody (besides AndyC) own one of these? Bushnell TRS-25 Trophy 1x25 Red Dot Scope
Comments?

2nd question - how important is magnification for 100 yd target shooting and hog hunting?

My brother in law has one. Closest competition is a Primary Arms MicroDot (I have one). I like the little thing, but precision shooting and 100 yds, with a red dot, its really about how well you can control the gun, and see the target. If you can hit it with irons, you will hit it with the red dot, but be faster, as alignment is less critical. We both have them on .22 uppers, and we enjoy blasting away. We also both have scoped .22's for when we want to play a little bit more with smaller targets.

I also have an Aimpoint (the standard for red dots), and I like it about the same in practical use, though it is heavier, and more robustly built.

A good "middle of the road" option may be something like a Vortex StrikeFire. It is their Aimpoint clone, with a screw in 2x magnifier. I have looked through it at a telephone pole at 100yds, and I would be confident in hitting that (10-12" wide or so?)with a red dot - and very confident with a 2x magnifier. And then there are the magnifiers for behind it, but thats not really for me, so I dont have anything to say on those.

A 1-4 scope is a great option as well, but if the $300 + is a bit much - Check out the Weaver 1-3x Slam (or something like that). Should be a great option (non illuminated) if you decide you want to go that route. Its sub $180. And honestly - since you have a few different goals - I would personally go with either of those 2 myself.

As mentioned, Natchez has the Nikon M223 refurb for around $220 right now (no mount).

You are not bench shooting, so 1-3 or 1-4x (1-6 if you have the budget) should be great for your purposes if you want a scope.