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This is one of those "friend of a friend..." deals.... A pal of mine is working with a partner who has obtained a permit to import a large quantity of 9mm ammo. My pal described it as "NATO military spec ammo for use in 9mm machine guns..." The ammo is coming from Europe. That's all the info I have. MY QUESTION is, have any of you out there had any experience with anything that sounded like what I'm describing? To me, "...for use in machine guns...." implies that this could be "hotter" loads than what someone might want to use in a standard handgun. My pal assured me that this stuff is high quality, brass casings and standard fmj bullets. Anyone have any experience with something like this?

D Red Raider wrote:This is one of those "friend of a friend..." deals.... A pal of mine is working with a partner who has obtained a permit to import a large quantity of 9mm ammo. My pal described it as "NATO military spec ammo for use in 9mm machine guns..." The ammo is coming from Europe. That's all the info I have. MY QUESTION is, have any of you out there had any experience with anything that sounded like what I'm describing? To me, "...for use in machine guns...." implies that this could be "hotter" loads than what someone might want to use in a standard handgun. My pal assured me that this stuff is high quality, brass casings and standard fmj bullets. Anyone have any experience with something like this?

I remember some stuff that was rated 9mm +P+ (which is NOT an official SAAMI spec), made by IMI (Israeli Military Industries), and loaded for sub-machineguns. That was many years ago, though. I would think that a lot of smaller 9mm pistols would not safely use such ammunition. IANAG, IANAL, YMMV.

NATO spec ammo is loaded to a higher pressure than American +P ammo. The reason for this is the 9MM sub guns used in Europe. The ammo is supposed to be safe to shoot in service pistols but may be too much of a good thing in compact/subcompact guns. I would shoot this kind of ammo in limited amounts in something like an, M&P, XD, Glock 17, or 15, Beretta 92, etc. I would not shoot this ammo in any "c" models of these guns at all.

With the shortage of ammo it is tempting to buy and shoot this ammo. Caveat Emptor.

MoJo wrote:NATO spec ammo is loaded to a higher pressure than American +P ammo.

9mm NATO is not loaded higher than +P

The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19mm Parabellum is set at 241.32 MPa (35,001 psi) piezo pressure.[20]
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 9×19 mm Parabellum +P is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi) piezo pressure.

The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,500 psi) where C.I.P. rates the 9 mm Luger PTmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,100 psi).

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though, the "For use in submachine guns" would concern me slightly. Many reports of excessive pressure and extremely hard primers.

My Beretta 92FS loves Winchester Q4318 Nato and if I could get a ton of it I would buy it. This is not +P but is 124 gr slightly higher than regular and great stuff. I imagine all of the "Nato" 9 mm are the same. I shoot this in Glock 26 as well. This is good ammo and will not blow your gun up. Do a google on Winchester Q4318 and if you can find it buy it. Academy in my town used to have it. It was on the shelves with all of the other 9mm. Remember those days? I think all of the Nato spec 9mm will be the same.

rotor wrote:My Beretta 92FS loves Winchester Q4318 Nato and if I could get a ton of it I would buy it. This is not +P but is 124 gr slightly higher than regular and great stuff. I imagine all of the "Nato" 9 mm are the same. I shoot this in Glock 26 as well. This is good ammo and will not blow your gun up. Do a google on Winchester Q4318 and if you can find it buy it. Academy in my town used to have it. It was on the shelves with all of the other 9mm. Remember those days? I think all of the Nato spec 9mm will be the same.

I agree with this. If the ammo is NATO spec similar to the Winchester ammo mentioned above, it runs great in my Glocks and M&Ps.

I'm trying to remember what exactly it was that I read, but some/one of the European produced guns (I think it was HK) had some issues during early break-in if they weren't using NATO or higher pressure 9mm rounds. This was because the guns were designed around that cartridge. I believe it might have been on a compact model also (stiffer springs). I specifically chose to use NATO or +P ammo while breaking in my subcompact kahr since they have a reputation of requiring some break-in on some pistols.