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Here is the question...
I sold an AR to someone Monday afternoon around 3:30pm. The person sent me a text 8 hrs later around 11pm asking for a refund because he said there are issues with the AR (like blemishes and marks that he wasn't aware of and and an issue with the front sight base) The FSB, as I stated in the ad was cut down. He's also saying the barrel nut is damaged (I don't know about any damage to it since I didn't install the free float rail that is on there) and said that the barrel was drilled through for the front sight post. Before anyone says anything about signing a bill of sale, I did not supply one because I forgot it at home. I thought I had it in the case with the gun. I sent the guy a text replying that I am not giving a refund explaining that I disclosed everything about the gun in the ad that I am aware of to my knowledge, also telling him he should have inspected the gun prior to handing over the money.

So far this is what the guy said...

"You know I did but dumb me for taking some ones listing at face value and for trusting you when you said the only thing wrong was the small ding on the bottom of the for end. You knowingly sold me an ad with potentially hazardous flaws. If you don't want to do the right thing that's fine I will see you in court. And by the way I've sent your info to Texas gun trader for review of possible deletion pending the out come of this conversaition. I didn't find out about most of the flaws on the rifle until after I started breaking it down. I just want my money back Sir. The same way you would if the situations were reversed. The difference is I would give it to you with out all of this having to take place. You can have your rifle and all that it came with in the same condition it was in when you sold it."

What is everyone's thoughts, and what would you have done? I also posed this question on the ar-15 GOA FB page and it was pretty much unanimous of no refund.
I do not plan on giving the guy a refund because I have no idea what has been done to the gun. I do not want to spend any money to have a gunsmith look it over to make sure nothing is wrong. The main thing is I do not want to risk getting a gun back that may have been used in a crime. If he asked for a refund an hour or so after buying it, I would have.

Also, I received a text from the buyer this afternoon stating that he will be filing a lawsuit against me on Friday.

This is why I only trade/sell with members of this forum. I don't even look at TGT anymore.

jiannichan wrote:Also, I received a text from the buyer this afternoon stating that he will be filing a lawsuit against me on Friday.

Given the fact that Friday is a state recognized optional holiday, he might find that a little difficult.

He had ample opportunity to inspect the gun before buying it. Now 8 hours later he is claiming that the gun has deficiencies (that you werent aware of). Who can say that he didnt damage the gun when he took it apart? Is he a qualified gun smith able to tear down this weapon in a proper manner? Who can say that he didnt take parts from the gun & replace with damaged or worn?



If he takes this to court it will probably be small claims court. It's a somewhat informal setting with the both of you stating your case. If you lose you will be ordered to refund the money plus court costs & service fees. (here in Jefferson County it is somewhere around $90 -$100)

If he prevails he will be awarded a judgement and if you dont pay he will have to get a writ of execution & hope he has a motivated constable who will hunt you down and seize something to auction off!

Not a lawyer, but Ive had to use small claims court a few times for debt collections.

If you can sell the gun quickly you may want to consider refunding his money less $150 or so. If not, prepare for court.

Tell him to pound sand.

AndyC wrote:Might want to make him an offer in writing that he take it to a store who has a gunsmith knowledgeable in AR15s and have it examined by them, with a report to go to both of you.

A. If it's found to be faulty, that you will do X, Y or Z (whatever you decide to offer - refund his money, have the gun repaired, etc)

B. If there's nothing materially wrong with the rifle, he has to suck it up.

Doing something like that would show your good faith in court, if it comes to that - and if the gunsmith tells him there's nothing wrong with the rifle, he has to just suck it up or, if he decides to proceed with legal action, look like an idiot in court (because you'd have the gunsmith's report too).

Like!

jbarn wrote:Tell him to pound sand.

jmra wrote:This is why I only trade/sell with members of this forum. I don't even look at TGT anymore.

I've bought/sold/traded numerous guns on TGT and this is the first time I've had problems. I'll probably never list anything on there again.

AndyC wrote:

jiannichan wrote:...and said that the barrel was drilled through for the front sight post.

Ask him for pictures - I'm curious whether he's referring to the gas-port or the taper-pins holding the gas-block to the barrel.

It was an A2 sight that was on there and I am sure he is referring to the taper-pins. His text "The barrel was drilled through for the pins on the gas block."
That leads me to believe that he is not very familiar with the AR platform if he doesn't know the rifle comes that way and thinks that makes the rifle hazardous.

AndyC wrote:Might want to make him an offer in writing that he take it to a store who has a gunsmith knowledgeable in AR15s and have it examined by them, with a report to go to both of you.

A. If it's found to be faulty, that you will do X, Y or Z (whatever you decide to offer - refund his money, have the gun repaired, etc)

B. If there's nothing materially wrong with the rifle, he has to suck it up.

Doing something like that would show your good faith in court, if it comes to that - and if the gunsmith tells him there's nothing wrong with the rifle, he has to just suck it up or, if he decides to proceed with legal action, look like an idiot in court (because you'd have the gunsmith's report too).

The thing is, the rifle was fired a few weeks ago at the range perfectly fine (200 flawless rounds). When you say faulty, do you mean where the rifle will fail to function? He said himself he doesn't doubt the rifle functions perfectly fine. The things he is complaining about has no affect to how it functions and are cosmetic. What if the damages that a gunsmith find were stuff that he caused, like the barrel nut while he was disassembling it and trying to pin it on me? He stated in a text " some of the holes where the barrel wrench is placed to tighten the barrel nut". I didn't see any damage like that prior to selling the rifle to him, since the free float was covering a majority of the nut.
Another text, "There are several blemishes on the outside of the rifle that were not documented."

There were numerous replies on FB that said he may have buyers remorse or his wife is irritated at him for the purchase and telling him to return it, which was funny but could be true.

jbarn wrote:Tell him to pound sand.

Given the amount of time he has been in possession of the rifle, I already told him I am not refunding him.

I woulda considered taking it back if the guy hadn't said he was in the process of disassembling the rifle AND upon physical exaimination it was exactly like it was when turned over. Otherwise - it is just buyer's remorse or the buyer buggered something up messing with it and is trying to walk away.

AndyC wrote:Might want to make him an offer in writing that he take it to a store who has a gunsmith knowledgeable in AR15s and have it examined by them, with a report to go to both of you.

A. If it's found to be faulty, that you will do X, Y or Z (whatever you decide to offer - refund his money, have the gun repaired, etc)

B. If there's nothing materially wrong with the rifle, he has to suck it up.

Doing something like that would show your good faith in court, if it comes to that - and if the gunsmith tells him there's nothing wrong with the rifle, he has to just suck it up or, if he decides to proceed with legal action, look like an idiot in court (because you'd have the gunsmith's report too).

This of course is very reasonable. Your advertisement did claim that the only problem was a ding and if there really is more of a problem confirmed by a gunsmith then you are misleading in your ad. I have bought many guns through TGT and always use a bill of sale and "as is" means that you accept the gun as is. Your bad for not having that bill of sale. If there is a defect you should make it good.

rotor wrote:

AndyC wrote:Might want to make him an offer in writing that he take it to a store who has a gunsmith knowledgeable in AR15s and have it examined by them, with a report to go to both of you.

A. If it's found to be faulty, that you will do X, Y or Z (whatever you decide to offer - refund his money, have the gun repaired, etc)

B. If there's nothing materially wrong with the rifle, he has to suck it up.

Doing something like that would show your good faith in court, if it comes to that - and if the gunsmith tells him there's nothing wrong with the rifle, he has to just suck it up or, if he decides to proceed with legal action, look like an idiot in court (because you'd have the gunsmith's report too).

This of course is very reasonable. Your advertisement did claim that the only problem was a ding and if there really is more of a problem confirmed by a gunsmith then you are misleading in your ad. I have bought many guns through TGT and always use a bill of sale and "as is" means that you accept the gun as is. Your bad for not having that bill of sale. If there is a defect you should make it good.

I totally disagree. It's the buyers bad for not getting a written warranty if he wanted guarantees regarding the condition of the firearm. Everyone knows the drill with purchasing a used firearm from an individual, make sure what you are buying before you buy it - all sales are final. In fact, buy a brand new firearm from Walmart or academy that ends up having an issue and go try to get your money back and see what happens.