ATF Agents at Ft. Worth Gun Range

dglockster · #1

Has anyone else heard about ATF agents checking guns at a range in Ft. Worth?

Found this at http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=317087.

rgoldy · #2

I had not heard about it until your posting. After reading the cited posting on the other BB, I have to agree with one of those posters that this smells a bunch, like ripe bull. I would want to see some hard evidence before believing that the few ATF guys have time to mess with this kind of activity.

mr surveyor · #3

I agree with the "bull" line of thinking on this. Color me skeptical.

BATFE may have an agent visit a range, but I would seriously doubt they would do random checks without obvious probable cause. As much whining as you hear from most governmental agencies about budget cuts and lack of manpower, how could the BATFE possibly be able spare the manpower to harrass weekend warriors at a big city range?

bauerdj · #4

I wonder if they got a complaint that fully automatic weapons were being fired at that range. I seriously doubt they were there just to check on where components were manufactured. Automatic weapons on the other hand probably would get their attention, especially if there had been a complaint (founded or unfounded)

Dave B.

Liberty · #5

The worst thing you can do is cooperate with the Feds. Martha Stuart. and Scooter Libby who seem like pretty good people, would not have been convicted of anything if they just refused to talk to them and kept their mouths shut. No good can ever come from cooperating to the Feds. Anything you say can be used against you. even if you have done nothing wrong.

govnor · #6

Well, I assume if they actually were there, then you would have to hand over your weapons for inspection. Hopefully you didn't bring your heavily modded AR that day anyway...

I'd say it's possible they were there if there was a complaint. From reading the thread on the other site, it seems like a lot of people don't like the guy that owns the range. I've been to many, many nightclubs in my time and noticed that the TABC was never in any of them, for the most part. Every once in a while, though, they would show up to walk around and look for underage drinkers, drunk people, etc. Usually you would find out later that someone had lodged a complaint about that club.

Will938 · #7

govnor wrote:Well, I assume if they actually were there, then you would have to hand over your weapons for inspection. Hopefully you didn't bring your heavily modded AR that day anyway...

Why would you have to hand over anything for inspection? Am I missing something or is it still wrong for the government to take your possessions from you without probable cause of a crime being committed?

bluelineman · #8

Will938 wrote:Why would you have to hand over anything for inspection? Am I missing something or is it still wrong for the government to take your possessions from you without probable cause of a crime being committed?

(If this is true) That's what I was thinking. I would ask him if he was familiar with the 4th Amendment, then to get lost. After all, he's wasting my valuable range time.

govnor · #9

Will938 wrote:
govnor wrote:Well, I assume if they actually were there, then you would have to hand over your weapons for inspection. Hopefully you didn't bring your heavily modded AR that day anyway...
Why would you have to hand over anything for inspection? Am I missing something or is it still wrong for the government to take your possessions from you without probable cause of a crime being committed?

I'm not saying it's right, but try arguing with them about it. Probably won't get you too far. Maybe you've never been hassled by bully law enforcement types, but they don't take no for an answer. Believe me, I've been there a few times and I wasn't doing anything wrong...just wrong place, wrong time. If you start resisting their intimidation they can think up all kinds of fun things to charge you with. It isn't right, but that's the way it is.

HighVelocity · #10

I asked around about this today and was unable to find anyone who'd even heard this rumor. I doubt it happened.

CHL/LEO · #11

Usually you would find out later that someone had lodged a complaint about that club.

That could be the case but it also has to do with reported crime on their premises (including parking lots). Those are the two main reasons I've seen.

My ex-partner is married to a TABC agent and I run across him and his squad a couple of weekends a month. They always have a list of clubs & bars they want to hit that night along with any addition recommendations that we might provide.

Liberty · #12

govnor wrote:
Will938 wrote:
govnor wrote:Well, I assume if they actually were there, then you would have to hand over your weapons for inspection. Hopefully you didn't bring your heavily modded AR that day anyway...
Why would you have to hand over anything for inspection? Am I missing something or is it still wrong for the government to take your possessions from you without probable cause of a crime being committed?
I'm not saying it's right, but try arguing with them about it. Probably won't get you too far. Maybe you've never been hassled by bully law enforcement types, but they don't take no for an answer. Believe me, I've been there a few times and I wasn't doing anything wrong...just wrong place, wrong time. If you start resisting their intimidation they can think up all kinds of fun things to charge you with. It isn't right, but that's the way it is.

You may have a point. The Feds do have a well deserved reputation for killing those who resist, but it has gotten better since Bill Hillary and Janice went away. It does seem dangerous to talk to them. Recent events seem to make it very clear that talking with the Feds will get you into trouble. Saying nothing can do no harm.Scooter Libby and Martha Stuart would never have been convicted if they just kept their mouth shut.

stevie_d_64 · #13

I went and took in context a lot of the commentary in that forum over there...And it appears to me that there may be a genuine dislike of this guy named "Richard"

...

So if you wanted to think you could somehow ruin someones reputation and business by floating a story (whether it is true or not, I'm leaning towards "not") about oppressive Law Enforcement like that in a forum where you would certainly be well versed in certain Constitutional principles...

This would be the way to do it...

This is a "duck"...Because its walking and talking like one...

govnor · #14

. It does seem dangerous to talk to them. Recent events seem to make it very clear that talking with the Feds will get you into trouble. Saying nothing can do no harm.Scooter Libby and Martha Stuart would never have been convicted if they just kept their mouth shut.

Yeah, stuff like that really breeds a distrust for the feds. Best thing to do would be keep your mouth shut and call a good lawyer. You'd think people like Martha S. would know that!

Will938 · #15

govnor wrote:
Will938 wrote:
govnor wrote:Well, I assume if they actually were there, then you would have to hand over your weapons for inspection. Hopefully you didn't bring your heavily modded AR that day anyway...
Why would you have to hand over anything for inspection? Am I missing something or is it still wrong for the government to take your possessions from you without probable cause of a crime being committed?
I'm not saying it's right, but try arguing with them about it. Probably won't get you too far. Maybe you've never been hassled by bully law enforcement types, but they don't take no for an answer. Believe me, I've been there a few times and I wasn't doing anything wrong...just wrong place, wrong time. If you start resisting their intimidation they can think up all kinds of fun things to charge you with. It isn't right, but that's the way it is.

Well of course you can't really say no. But my answer would be something like, "I am in no way submitting my property freely. If you take it I will not resist, but I want to make it very clear that I am not giving you permission to do anything." What are they going to charge me with?

edit: And I have been bullied pretty bad, by TABC specifically. I've been threatened with arrest for public intoxication once, while I hadn't had one drop. Just talking to a friend outside a bar. Another time I was at the Cookoff they hold down at the astrodome with a friend when a couple TABC types came in got tough quick. Again, stone sober, threatened with PI, started hassling my friend pretty bad (who had a beer, they thought he was underage) so I stood back and watched. Then one guy kept on him while the other told me I'd be behind bars if I didn't take off. Then another time my friend got into an accident with a drunk driver in Jersey Village. I happened to have a video camera on hand so I started recording everything. When the cops showed up a few minutes later one of them saw me with a camera, told me to turn it off, to calm down (he seemed a lot more hystarical to me???), and then put me in cuffs for about 20 minutes. Then gave me this big speech about how he wasn't gonna have a camera on his crime scene. Hey jerk, how's about you go after the drunk driver that nearly killed us and was last seen speeding down the feeder road going the wrong way on three wheels. I think that about sums up my horrible experiences with law enforcement. The only other bad experience I pretty much deserved.