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More Jello-testing garbage debunked by Paul.

I did not realize there was a big argument that 9mm was as effective as 357 mag. I did notice that shot placement with the 9mm was not as good as shot placement on the 357 mag.

Yep. I totally agree that the .357 is a more powerful round than the 9mm. I do not anticipate carrying my GP-100 6 shot revolver as an EDC anytime soon though. I'll stick with my Shields and XD Mod 2's in 9mm and .45acp. I like having more shots available quickly.

I always like Paul's videos. They are so well done and well thought out.

Just my thoughts.

Joe

Interesting and informative. Personally, I have never considered the .357 mag and 9mm to be equal. I'll continue to carry the pistol that fits me best. And continue watching Paul Harrell.

A hit to the CNS, major blood vessel or heart puts all the pistol calibers on an even playing field, just as a miss does.

TomS wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:26 am A hit to the CNS, major blood vessel or heart puts all the pistol calibers on an even playing field, just as a miss does.

The size of the wound channel will increase the likelihood of hitting a vital area.

I have always assumed the 357 would provide more stopping power than the 9 mm. I also feel a 44 mag is even more capable. But the trade off in managing the recoil of the round also is a consideration. I have seen others post on the forum that firing that snubby in 357 magnum is hard to manage.

The extra velocity is bound to create a larger wound channel. That is the very essence of the high velocity wound channel created by the 5.56 round of a military rifle.

You’re not getting larger permanent cavities due to velocity in handguns, only rifles. You’re only advantage is penetration depth, sometimes too much penetration as experienced by PD using 357 Sig Gold Dots going through people.

TomS wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:26 am A hit to the CNS, major blood vessel or heart puts all the pistol calibers on an even playing field, just as a miss does.

According to this theory, a .22LR is as "efficient" in self-defense shootings as any centerfire handgun. That is absurd.

Chas.

TomS wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:03 pm You’re not getting larger permanent cavities due to velocity in handguns, only rifles. You’re only advantage is penetration depth, sometimes too much penetration as experienced by PD using 357 Sig Gold Dots going through people.

This does make sense to me and over penetration is definitely an issue. But I would have to disagree about the higher velocity not making a larger wound channel.

Of course the .357 magnum round is more powerful than the 9 mm. round.

However, having said that, when I go to the range I would much rather shoot my 9 mm handguns than my Smith and Wesson 686 7 shot revolver in .357 magnum. The .357 magnum round is darn loud (even with good hearing protection on) and has a stout recoil. When I shoot the 686 at the range I will usually use .38 special rounds in it.

When I purchased my Ruger LCR I had to weigh what caliber to buy--the .38 special plus p or the .357 magnum...Lots of folks complained about it being a "snappy gun" in .357 magnum so I bought it in the .38 special plus p. It is about my third backup carry gun behind my Glock 26 and my Smith and Wesson Shield M and P in 9 mm.

Whatever you carry---train--and train hard!

dlh wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:46 pm
When I purchased my Ruger LCR I had to weigh what caliber to buy--the .38 special plus p or the .357 magnum...Lots of folks complained about it being a "snappy gun" in .357 magnum so I bought it in the .38 special plus p. It is about my third backup carry gun behind my Glock 26 and my Smith and Wesson Shield M and P in 9 mm.

Whatever you carry---train--and train hard!

I made the same choice for the very same reason. TAM from this forum had made a post back then about his airweight in 357 being a beast. After reading that, I went 38 and utilize +P rounds in it for self defense.

TomS wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:03 pm You’re not getting larger permanent cavities due to velocity in handguns, only rifles. You’re only advantage is penetration depth, sometimes too much penetration as experienced by PD using 357 Sig Gold Dots going through people.

A very good friend was a surgeon before his untimely death. He disagreed with your statement. Plus, you ignore damage caused by the temporary would cavity.

The testing done by LuckyGunner.com also proves that faster pistol velocities do produce larger permanent would cavities and temporary cavities. Below are photos from testing .357 SIG 125 Gr. PDX-1 (1431 FPS) and 9mm +P Gold Dot 124 Gr (1157 fps). Obviously, the photos on the LuckyGunner.com website are not to scale since when printed at 100% actual size, they measure only 9" rather than 22". Therefore, the measurements of the permanent would cavity are understated, but their relative size comparison is accurate.

The numbers below were measured with a dial caliper on photos printed from the LuckyGunner.com website. The permanent wound cavity is scaled up to account for the scaling issue.

• .357 SIG 125 gr JHP @ 1,431 fps = .642" (approx. 1.57" actual) permanent wound cavity;
  9mm Speer Gold Dot +P 124 gr. JHP @ 1157 fps = .354" (approx. .86") permanent wound cavity.

Thus, with identical bullet weight, diameter and configuration (JHP) the .357 SIG traveling 274 fps faster produced a wound cavity that was 81% larger.

There are videos of each of these rounds being tested. There are on the LuckyGunner.com website, so I couldn't post a direct link. However, links to the page where these videos can be seen are listed below by caliber. The temporary would cavity caused by the .357 SIG at 1,431 fps was significantly larger and of longer duration/depth than the slower 9mm at 1,157 fps.

While no pistol round will achieve the temporary/permanent wound cavities seen with high velocity rifles, faster bullets do make larger temporary/permanent would cavities.

Speer Gold Dot +P 124 gr. 9mm JHP video - https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-p-124-g ... ds#geltest
Winchester PDX-1 125 gr. 357 Sig JHP video - https://www.luckygunner.com/winchester- ... on#geltest

Chas.

dlh wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:46 pm Of course the .357 magnum round is more powerful than the 9 mm. round.

However, having said that, when I go to the range I would much rather shoot my 9 mm handguns than my Smith and Wesson 686 7 shot revolver in .357 magnum. The .357 magnum round is darn loud (even with good hearing protection on) and has a stout recoil. When I shoot the 686 at the range I will usually use .38 special rounds in it.

When I purchased my Ruger LCR I had to weigh what caliber to buy--the .38 special plus p or the .357 magnum...Lots of folks complained about it being a "snappy gun" in .357 magnum so I bought it in the .38 special plus p. It is about my third backup carry gun behind my Glock 26 and my Smith and Wesson Shield M and P in 9 mm.

Whatever you carry---train--and train hard!

If you really want a soft sweet shooting round try a target 38 Wad cutter load in a .357 platform. Also a heavier .357 LCR would be able to handle the .38 special + p with the heavier pistol having less felt recoil.