Late night drive thru encounter....and no gun.

[jsdintexas]

Thought I would offer some if my impressions here. I am not suggesting any course of action one way or another because every scenario has its specific points - there are no set rules, actions, or anything else that covers all the bases. And I am not trying to tell you how to be a father!!!

1) late at night, public place, 10 year-old? My old-time thinking puts kids to bed by 9 or 10 PM every night.
2) Black is irrevelant, but dirty may indicate homeless, which I call a bum. So developing the image - he was probably drunk; they usually can't get or afford hard drugs. But hey, who knows?
3) No way out of a drive-thru lane 90% of the time.
4) Rolling up the window and dialing 911 is maybe first and pulling out of the lane if possible 2nd - rolling up windows because they are pretty tough against a fist, maybe not a board or tire iron or multiple blows might be 3rd, but I wouldn't count on it. And attempted or actual breaking of the glass is justification to light him up.
5) Wait for the cops and report - they and Jack probably know the guy since these types hang out in the same general locations
6) Lighting him up for this bum's preliminary actions (yelling, approach), which I think I understand, is generally not legally defensible in TX, or at least would require a lot of discussion with the cops.
7) My highest concern is the obvious trama to the young man. I hope you discussed this with him to get his take on the incident and make sure he is not having nightmares or sleeping with his BB gun or a kitchen knife or such as that - a 10 year old is obviously very impressionable, but as a father I am sure you know that and I apologize for sounding like parent police if I do.
8) Glad it turned out ok. And maybe some advice - don't be unarmed. And I bet you won't be again or let that CHL expire.

Let me apologize again if I have stepped on any toes here.

[drjoker]

good situational awareness. old guys in rags are just panhandlers and can be ignored. young guys approaching in a suspicious manner cannot be ignored. stay alert and good job.

[M4Dogg]

You did the right thing. Maybe he was innocent and you could have killed him? Could you have even gotten a (good) shot off from that angle (driver's seat with him coming from behind you) - I'm a lefty so it would be way harder for me than a righty but you get my point.

Now if there had been a car in front of you, I dunno. I think I would have rolled up the window 90% and draw my weapon. 90% so you don't rupture your ear drums although it may not matter given the proximity, but it could be better than a ruptured neck from his knife or whatever was in his hands.

[KaiserB]

This illustrates a situation where many of us would fall prey. When at the drive through I try to leave a gap between me and the car in front, for several reasons. You never know when some knuckle head is going to have their car break down and you are trapped in a tight traffic chain that takes 5 minutes to unravel. The other reason is if some dork jumps out of the bushes or comes out from behind the dumpster surround, corner of building, or fence you can turn the wheel and quickly pull out of the line to safety.

[maximus2161]

Thought I would offer some if my impressions here. I am not suggesting any course of action one way or another because every scenario has its specific points - there are no set rules, actions, or anything else that covers all the bases. And I am not trying to tell you how to be a father!!!

1) late at night, public place, 10 year-old? My old-time thinking puts kids to bed by 9 or 10 PM every night.
2) Black is irrevelant, but dirty may indicate homeless, which I call a bum. So developing the image - he was probably drunk; they usually can't get or afford hard drugs. But hey, who knows?
3) No way out of a drive-thru lane 90% of the time.
4) Rolling up the window and dialing 911 is maybe first and pulling out of the lane if possible 2nd - rolling up windows because they are pretty tough against a fist, maybe not a board or tire iron or multiple blows might be 3rd, but I wouldn't count on it. And attempted or actual breaking of the glass is justification to light him up.
5) Wait for the cops and report - they and Jack probably know the guy since these types hang out in the same general locations
6) Lighting him up for this bum's preliminary actions (yelling, approach), which I think I understand, is generally not legally defensible in TX, or at least would require a lot of discussion with the cops.
7) My highest concern is the obvious trama to the young man. I hope you discussed this with him to get his take on the incident and make sure he is not having nightmares or sleeping with his BB gun or a kitchen knife or such as that - a 10 year old is obviously very impressionable, but as a father I am sure you know that and I apologize for sounding like parent police if I do.
8) Glad it turned out ok. And maybe some advice - don't be unarmed. And I bet you won't be again or let that CHL expire.

Let me apologize again if I have stepped on any toes here.

You are new fairly here and while I admit while you probably didn't intend it I do find your responses a bit condescending. It is easy to armchair quarterback the events after the fact especially when you were not present. I respect you are offering your opinions. However they way you presented a few of them I do find a bit offensive as if you are talking down to me. Not something you see members do here. I posted this clearly admitting what I think I did wrong. Offering opinions is one thing and lecturing down to a member here is something else.

1) late at night, public place, 10 year-old? My old-time thinking puts kids to bed by 9 or 10 PM every night.
Usually my son isnt up late but this is a special treat we occasionally do during the summer.

2) Black is irrevelant, but dirty may indicate homeless, which I call a bum. So developing the image - he was probably drunk; they usually can't get or afford hard drugs. But hey, who knows?
The fact the man was black has nothing to do with it other than I was making an observation and giving a description. If he had been Caucasian or Hispanic I would have described that

3) No way out of a drive-thru lane 90% of the time.
That is why I leave about a car lengths distance between myself and and another vehicle in front of me if possible. But some drive thrus have barriers. Those I try and avoid. I was fortunate in this case

4) Rolling up the window and dialing 911 is maybe first and pulling out of the lane if possible 2nd - rolling up windows because they are pretty tough against a fist, maybe not a board or tire iron or multiple blows might be 3rd, but I wouldn't count on it. And attempted or actual breaking of the glass is justification to light him up.
Are you serious? I strongly disagree with your comment about calling the police 'maybe' first in this situation. This all occurred in a matter of seconds. My first priority was to get away and protect my son and myself and avoid any confrontation. Calling the police could only be done once what I perceived to an imminent threat was removed. I am not going to be a sitting duck just to call the police when I need to get away first. Im not going to debate all the reasons here but to be clear if this situation happened again I would take the same steps. Get away first then call the police. Even IF I had a gun I would not deploy it in this situation. It would just have been nice to have and that was the whole point. What could have happened is my point. I had SECONDS to decide what to do. I chose to 'retreat' and I will do that every time possible and call the police when it is a bit more safe to do so.

5) Wait for the cops and report - they and Jack probably know the guy since these types hang out in the same general locations

6) Lighting him up for this bum's preliminary actions (yelling, approach), which I think I understand, is generally not legally defensible in TX, or at least would require a lot of discussion with the cops.
At this point it would not have been justifiable even if I had been armed to 'light him up". First option was to retreat safely.

7) My highest concern is the obvious trama to the young man. I hope you discussed this with him to get his take on the incident and make sure he is not having nightmares or sleeping with his BB gun or a kitchen knife or such as that - a 10 year old is obviously very impressionable, but as a father I am sure you know that and I apologize for sounding like parent police if I do.
No there was no trauma to my son. After the fact once we talked about it that was the end of it for him and yes I am aware how impressionable any 10 year old can be. And saying "make sure he is not having nightmares or sleeping with his BB gun or a kitchen knife or such as that" just isnt necessary to say here.

8) Glad it turned out ok. And maybe some advice - don't be unarmed. And I bet you won't be again or let that CHL expire.
As I had already stated and admitted I feel I was not prepared as I should have been. I made no secret of the fact. My goal was to share with others here as to be a reminder we need to be vigilant regardless if we have a gun or not.