What is your Limit?

[The Annoyed Man]

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

Clint Smith, quoted on page 1 of this thread.

[Pinkycatcher]

I'm unlucky enough that I'm smaller than most of the male population, so if I do end up in a fight I will have to draw, not out of cowardice but out of safety. I'm 5'10" 140 (on a heavy day) and if you don't think the average guy who has 30 lbs more weight of me has an advantage I'd strongly suggest you go pick a fight with a guy that weighs that much more than you. Luckily I rarely wander around alone where I could get into a fight, any "sketchy" places I go I'm usually with a group of friends, who, while they aren't great fighters or weight lifters, are still generally bigger and do have my back.

[stevie_d_64]

To sum up what TAM said: Never pick a fight with an old man. If he is too tired to fight, he will just have to kill you.

"Age and Treachery will win over Youth and Skill everytime..."

My Grandfather taught me that one the hard way...I never got into a snowball fight with him ever again...

[Smokey613]

I would have to agree on everything The Annoyed Man posted earlier. I think a little planning and observation goes a long way in avoiding these situations. Just be ready and willing to act if all other options are closed.

[.45mac.40]

by stevie_d_64 » 30 May 2010, 19:17

Crossfire wrote:
To sum up what TAM said: Never pick a fight with an old man. If he is too tired to fight, he will just have to kill you.

"Age and Treachery will win over Youth and Skill everytime..."

My Grandfather taught me that one the hard way...I never got into a snowball fight with him ever again...



Mac

[ddurkof]

I have to ask, do you guys get into that many confrontations? Maybe I am just good at avoiding them (Knock on wood).

[Keith B]

i noticed a few post said that when being "pushed or shoved" while trying to walk away from a fight, obvisouly you do not want to turn your back to the BG, but a few of you mentioned to "warn" them. by "warning" them do you mean letting them know you are armed? IMO that seems like a bad movewhat if the BG is carrying also and has a faster draw than you do.

its a Catch-22 type of deal.

this is an interesting thread ive just read all 4 pages

In warning, I will never tip my hand that I am armed. Use the 'STOP! Don't come any closer!' in a loud commanding voice and if they proceed toward you as you are retreating, then IMO you would have justification to use force to stop the advancment.

[JayCee]

If you carry a gun, and think there are such things as simple butt whippings, you are wrong. As soon as your opponent feels that gun on you, he will begin fighting for the gun and his life, and he may get the biggest adrenaline surge of his life, to boot.

There are no more butt whippings, there are only fights over the gun. Avoid them.

Need to keep thinking this one through.

Very true...but I'm of the mind that grown men shouldn't be fighting unless it's recreational. I'm sure that some of you may already know this but: fighting sucks. Whether you win or lose you'll probably end up in jail or hospital, with a torn shirt or lost your watch in the struggle and your girl won't stop screaming at you for being stupid.

I find that having a gun in the car keeps me calmer and keeps me from succumbing to the adrenalin that a potental physical altercation can cause. The times when I've made bad decisicions are when I was amped up and felt that I had no recourse but to fight. The last time cost me reconstructive surgery on my eye and nose and I WON! Now when I have a weapon I find that it's much easier to let things go.

[Bob in Big D]

I am too old to start a fight with anyone.....but I won't take a beating from anyone that could end up as veggie time or death for me. So if someone ever comes after me they will be warned to stop and after that it is up to them what happens next.

Most, but not all, fights are in bars.....where we are not supposed to be while carrying.

[ironsights]

this is what can happen

A 29-year-old former Goodwill store worker was sentenced in a Travis County court Tuesday to 10 years of probation for a Sixth Street attack last year on Nikolas Evans, 21, who later died of his injuries.

Earlier in the day, Eric Skeeter had pleaded guilty to recklessly causing Evans' death by punching him.

The sentence came under a plea bargain with prosecutors that was approved by state District Judge Charlie Baird.

Skeeter has been in jail since his arrest in July, more than three months after the attack.

Because of his criminal record, Skeeter could have faced up to life in prison. Prosecutors said they offered the probation sentence in exchange for the guilty plea.

Police have said that Evans was leaving a bar with a friend about 2 a.m. March 27 when they got into an argument with several men at East Sixth and Neches streets.

After that argument, police have said, another group approached Evans and his friend, and one of the men in that group hit both of them. Evans hit his head on the ground after he was punched, according to investigators. He died nine days later.

Prosecutor Buddy Meyer said prosecutors offered the plea agreement because they feared they would not be able to prove Skeeter's guilt at trial.

Police and Evans' mother last summer made public pleas for witnesses through the news media, but Meyer said many of the witnesses to Evans being punched could not be found, including a man and two women who were with Skeeter.

Police had found one witness who saw Skeeter standing over Evans during the altercation but nobody who could identify Skeeter as the one who threw the punch, Meyer said.

"We felt that it was important to hold (Skeeter) accountable for the death," by securing his conviction with the guilty plea, Meyer said.

Defense attorney Patrick McNelis said probation was an appropriate punishment.

"Of course, Eric took responsibility for it," he said. "But we are talking about a one-punch case on Sixth Street. It's not like some savage murder."

The case received national attention when Evans' mother successfully petitioned a Travis County court for permission to collect her son's sperm in the days after his death.

Marissa Evans said she wanted to have a grandchild through a surrogate mother, which she has not yet done.

Marissa Evans has described her son as a good kid, an aspiring filmmaker with a quick wit who had been accepted into film school at UCLA.

McNelis described Skeeter as a "really nice guy" who hopes to get his life back on track.

He said Skeeter grew up in Virginia and came to Texas after he joined the Army and was stationed at Fort Hood.

McNelis said that after a relationship there went bad, Skeeter broke into his ex-girlfriend's house and stole some CDs. He was convicted of burglary and sentenced to probation in about 2001, McNelis said.

"He was essentially kicked out of the military, and his life started spiraling," McNelis said.

Skeeter returned to Virginia to live with his parents, and he was arrested there for driving while intoxicated, McNelis said.

Because of that arrest, Skeeter was brought back to Texas, where his probation on the burglary charge was revoked and he was sentenced to five years in prison. He served 2½ years before being paroled in August 2006.

He was living in Austin and working at Goodwill when he ran into Evans on Sixth Street after the bars closed last summer, McNelis said.

Skeeter remains in jail while a Texas parole officer evaluates whether he should be returned to prison or continue on parole, McNelis said.

[shawnd2k]

i would personally not pull my gun unless I felt my life (other person had any weapon, gun , knife, baseball bat..etc) or the lives of my family were in danger

[flechero]

Unfortunately to wait until you "need" to draw is too late... the hit that makes up your mind is also the one that can incapacitate, mame or kill you. I have no intention of finding out if I can still fight well... if someone attacks me or tries to attack me, I will draw as soon as I can.

edited to add: the above statements assume I cannot run away.

[jamisjockey]

I'm not big, strong or agile. I have a documented bad back.

The real issue is, why are you in the fight to begin with? I personally am not enganging in mutual combat nor provoking an attack. I will not be giving another person a valid reason to lay hands on me, and there is no reason in a civilized society to start a fight with someone who didn't provoke it through forceful actions (IMHO, INAL, and YMMV, words are not enough.). Disparity of force not withstanding, in an unprovoked attack I have no reasonable expectation that if the other person "beats me up", that the beating won't cause me death or serious bodily harm (PC §9.01 (3) "Deadly force" means force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury). And, when I've taken my beating, what then is to stop the assailant from removing my weapon from me and killing me, or anyone else with said weapon?

http://www.nctimes.com/news/local/ocean ... 2d8ee.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/articl ... /index.xml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.wsmv.com/news/25095912/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If this isn't deadly force, I don't know what is:
http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Wo ... spx?rss=68" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gone, gone, gone are the days when gentlemen solved a dispute with a few punches behind the stables.
Hollywood would have us think that men involved in an amicable fight would go so far as to help the other up after knocking him to the ground. In movies, people walk away from severe beatings with just bruises and cuts.
Reality, though, is much different. Dissaffected youths would happily stomp your melon in after knocking you to the ground. Road ragers will beat you until you lose an eye in a moment of pent up suburban rage.
Personally, much of the time I have my children with me. I cannot care for or defend them if some punk knocks me out in a fist fight.
Even in a "fair" gentlemenly fight, people are severly injured and killed. One concussion can cause brain damage.
And, as I said before, there is absolutely no place for such behavior in a polite society. People who can't control themselves have no right to assault me over a percieved or even actual wrong. Little value is placed on personal space, and on life itself, in this society.

[drjoker]

I'm not big, strong or agile. I have a documented bad back.

The real issue is, why are you in the fight to begin with?

Exactly what I was thinking. Even if you cannot physically retreat, you can verbally de-escalate the situation by (gulp), apologizing, even if they were wrong and you were right. Massad Ayoob (or Mossad Ayoob?) gave this advice in one of his columns that he wrote for an ancient issue of some gun mag once (I forget which one). Better to lose a bit of "pride" than lose $100k in legal fees and a year of your life proving that you're innocent in a questionable (to some) shoot. Being armed is a big responsibility and shouldn't be taken lightly.

One time, in Austin, I was in an elevator and some crazy drunk guy glared at me and said, "What're you looking at?" (his scantily clad girlfriend was with him). "Nothing," I replied. Bam! He punches the elevator inches next to my head to intimidate me. "I'm sorry," I said. "That's what I thought," he replied. The entire time, my finger was on the trigger of my gun in my coat pocket and pointed at his COM (I had not learned to put my finger on the frame for safety yet at the time). He's just lucky that I expected him to punch the elevator to intimidate me. Otherwise, if it startled me, I might've pulled the trigger as a startled response.

Where do these idiots come from? I would never even dream of bullying some random stranger on the street in Texas, especially if the stranger had some strange object in his pocket pointed at my COM! It's surprising exactly how shallow the shallow end of the gene pool really is....