Hi,
Sorry to be cluttering up your forums with questions that have probably been answered before, but I've had toothache for a week now, and can't sleep, so since it's six am here in France, here's another one for you.
I'm 6'4", probably 85 kg (185 lbs), so no seven stone weakling.
What happens if I'm walking along the street (I know: no one walks in Texas! I'll recount the story of what happened when I walked to the Synagogue in Amarillo last month, if you'd like), and a guy say 6'2", 180 lbs comes towards you. Twenty yards away, he demands money or worse, informs me that he's going to use violence against me, whilst continuing to walk towards me.
Now we're roughly the same size, so there's not the 'disparity of size' criterion that I recall seeing on the DPS website as justifying the use or the threat of deadly force, but I'm not a fighter. One - on - one, I suppose I could 'defend' myself, but what if this guy's a trained fighter? What if he gets closer and produces a weapon?
In such a situation, would I be justified in unholstering my weapon and either threatening to shoot, or even shooting if he does not desist?
6'4", 185 lbs. might be big in France, but here in Texas they would call you "Slim". You'll need another 100 lbs. to get into the 'Big Guy' league here.
You can't draw on words alone. When a weapon is produced, then the threat becomes deadly.
Don't worry, you'll put on some weight when you get here, the food is better in Tx.
Regards, OE
NRA
TSRA
JPFO
American Legion
USN (69-77)
What did you expect?
Being 6'4" makes you taller than about 98% of the population. That is a decided advantage. It's intimidating. I'm 6'1", and I'm somewhat intimidated by people who are taller than I.
I don't know if you have a beard or moustache. Facial hair can add to the intimidation factor, as do sunglasses (which are called for most days in Texas).
I believe the first notch in the spectrum of force is posture. If you stand upright and indicate that you are aware of your surroundings, most savvy bums will not bother talking to you.
The next step is the stern look. The next after that is a fighting posture. In 34 years as an adult, I have never had to go further than that.
Most bums, con artists, and criminals are looking for easy pickings. A few are extremely hardened (the kind that will fight cops) or are psychotic and out of touch with reality. I've been fortunate to run into only the first kind.
A lot of these types of scenarios will likely be covered by your CHL instructor (relatively briefly), and the same type of aggression may call for different responses depending upon the situation in which the aggression occurs. Are you alone? Are there innocent children playing in the background some distance behind the aggressor? Is it day or night? Do you have maneuvering room? Are you outnumbered? Is the aggressor closer or further than 15 ft away? Is he young and healthy, or old, drunk, and decrepit? Are you near cover, or out in the open? Are you near your vehicle or is it parked down the street? Were you followed, or is this a chance encounter? What are the aggressor's hands doing? In other words, what is the bigger tactical picture?
There are so many possible variables that it is difficult to give a pat answer for which action is prescribed on your part. Part of your response will be determined by your own level of judgment and maturity; part of it will be determined by what the law allows in a specific situation; and part of it will be determined by the extent to which you are trained and the degree to which you are in good physical condition, both of which expand your options.
I've only had my license for a little less than 4 months now, and one of the things that has become painfully obvious to me is that obtaining the license is just the beginning, not the end. I am a fairly decent shot with both pistol and rifle, but I have never received any tactical training in the use of either, and the only knowledge I have of such is that which I have picked up either in conversation with others, or through what I've read in books, magazines, or on the Internet. But none of that is a substitute for hands on training, and I have never actually had the chance to practice any of it, nor have I ever received any formal instruction in any of it. Obtaining a driver's license makes you legally qualified to drive, but it doesn't make you into a Kimi Räikkönen. For that, you have to attend a racing school and begin competing locally at the club racing level. Even if you never become a champion, it will make you into a well trained and competent driver within your own physical limitations.
So it is with the tactical use of firearms, and the potential of tactical necessity is why we carry them in the first place. A gunfight is the most brutal kind of competition there is, and not everybody will have the ability to become the next Gabe Suarez. But... everybody can become proficient enough to learn what works best for them, according to their age, health, and mobility. It seems to me that, if you are going to assume the responsibilities that go with carrying a lethal weapon, then you have a moral responsibility to get at least minimal instruction in its actual use from someone who is qualified to give such training. The most important part of your weapon system is your brain. Train it, and the rest will follow.
Anyway, my personal plan is to take some kind of personal defense firearms training as soon as I can afford to do so. I am 55 years old with various medical and orthopedic reasons for why I can't become the next Gabe Suarez. However, I can certainly be trained to both maximize my ability to recognize a threat and determine the options, and then to act on those options available to me. You won't get all of that in a basic CHL class, so my best advice to you would be to do the same - get additional instruction and training from an NRA qualified instructor either before or after you get your CHL. It will add immeasurably to your confidence in both your judgment and your abilities.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
The Annoyed Man wrote:My apologies in advance for a long answer...
...... Obtaining a driver's license makes you legally qualified to drive, but it doesn't make you into a Kimi Räikkönen.....
Kimi???????? You're a gun owner, you were supposed to mention Dale Earnhardt or someone else from "NeckCar", not F1! You're not fitting the mold! You're confusing the Anti's!
Sorry, couldn't help it, I'm a big F1 fan surrounded by Bud Light drinking NASCAR fans.
Harry
NRA Endowment Life Member
Sig P239-40
"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing."
The scary thing about that film is how easy a BG with a knife can get you on the ground, and once that happens, he just keeps pumelling away with his blade at your torso, and before you know it, your vision is starting to cloud over, you're lightheaded, you feel like you're 'floating'.
You in fact are being murdered.
Very, very scary.
Particularly chilling is at around four minutes into the video, when he has the yellow plastic gun in his hand, he says that in his opinion and at close range, a knife is far more dangerous than a gun.
The scary thing about that film is how easy a BG with a knife can get you on the ground, and once that happens, he just keeps pumelling away with his blade at your torso, and before you know it, your vision is starting to cloud over, you're lightheaded, you feel like you're 'floating'.
Particularly chilling is at around four minutes into the video, when he has the yellow plastic gun in his hand, he says that in his opinion and at close range, a knife is far more dangerous than a gun.
Yep you are in a FIGHT.
To me that Dogzilla guy, is pretty scary.
“It is the belief that violence is an aberration that is dangerous because it lulls us into forgetting how easily violence may erupt in quiescent places.” S. Pinker
I have friend whose Husband was KILLED by a single punch to the head. With that being said, I wont take me chances. If I am threatened with force and "I am fearfull of the situation," I will respond with force.
DAD, You are missed
6-5-54 ~ 4-16-10
rwhedgeart.com
III% United Patriots of Texas
OverEasy wrote:6'4", 185 lbs. might be big in France, but here in Texas they would call you "Slim". You'll need another 100 lbs. to get into the 'Big Guy' league here. You can't draw on words alone. When a weapon is produced, then the threat becomes deadly.
Don't worry, you'll put on some weight when you get here, the food is better in Tx.
Regards, OE
The statement in bold is incorrect. You are justified in using deadly force to prevent the commission of robbery or aggravated robbery. "Give me your money" is an announcement of robbery. If you believe that announcement was made seriously, you are justified in drawing and firing.
Also, drawing a weapon is considered use of force other than deadly force in the state of Texas. It is therefore justified whenever such force would otherwise be justified; i.e. if you could pepper-spray an attacker you can draw on him. Now, this can actually put you at a disadvantage, because you cannot fire your weapon until the threat becomes deadly or the BG acts in a way that a reasonable person would conclude is an immediate threat of one of the crimes that justify deadly force. Thus, the BG can thus maneuver, walk away calmly, or stall for time and you cannot prevent such action. You also should not put the gun down until the threat is gone, because the distraction of reholstering gives the BG ample opportunity to go for his own gun; once you draw, therefore, all your cards are on the table.
israel67 wrote:Hi,
I'm 6'4", probably 85 kg (185 lbs), so no seven stone weakling.
Wow, you need to eat something. Ive got 1 inch and 100lbs on you.
Well right now man (if y'all will forgive the off-topic post), I'm just back from the dentist. He said he'd have to cut the tooth in two to get it out (cut it in two??!!! The guy is a maniac!!!), but even after six injections, he couldn't touch the tooth without my screaming in agony. So I'm on antibiotics until next week when he'll try again, and I have just taken 2 x 500mg of paracetamol.
Oh, and some of this ...
So anyway, all that to say that I don't wanna get any bigger. In fact, 185 lbs is too heavy for my liking.
Liko81 wrote:Also, drawing a weapon is considered use of force other than deadly force in the state of Texas. It is therefore justified whenever such force would otherwise be justified; ...
I don't think that's true when it comes to CHLs not on their own property.
Please consider this law:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
I know of two cases where CHL holders have been prosecuted under this law. One was a road-rage incident where the other driver had not threatened the life of the CHL holder. The other involved kids who were banging on the CHL holder's vehicle while the CHL holder was inside.
