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So, on another forum a guy is talking about getting hit and how having his (insert gun) would have made things all better.
Maybe it is my upbringing, but I was brought up "in a fist fight us your fists", "a fight is between 2 men, help is not needed or accepted"," take your lumps like a man"
Today, it seems like teens/young men are resorting to using weapons. This causes me to take things to the next step.
So, do you take a whipping? At what point do you resort to pulling your side arm?
Personally, I avoid situations that I would need my side arm. I first started getting concerned after Katrina and the crime rate began to climb in my neighborhood. At first just something in the home. As I watched the news and saw that more and more folks are being attacked in their cars or in parking lots. In New Orleans this was common place now it is common place here.
Personally, if my family is involved at all. I will take all available/extreme action.
If I am out numbered, or the other person is at all armed. I will take action.
I have taken a butt whipping before and will again.

RocTrac wrote:So, on another forum a guy is talking about getting hit and how having his (insert gun) would have made things all better.
Maybe it is my upbringing, but I was brought up "in a fist fight us your fists", "a fight is between 2 men, help is not needed or accepted"," take your lumps like a man"
Today, it seems like teens/young men are resorting to using weapons. This causes me to take things to the next step.
So, do you take a whipping?

I know Gordon Hale is glad he pulled his gun. If he could have stopped the "fist fight" sooner, he might still have vision in his left eye.

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Okay, at what point does he present his weapon? When the guy walked up to his door? Anything less and and the situation is still the same.
I am not asking you to pick apart my question, just answer it.
When do you present?

Hale was trapped in his vehicle, unable to escape. He was being punched severely by a very large, strong person. Even so, he was arrested even if the grand jury didn't indict him.

I was whipped 41 years ago by an older man with more training and experience (17 yo smart aleck vs 25 yo former Marine). Still, there was no way it would have progressed past a butt kicking. It was one of those 'meet you behind the car wash' things with an audience present.

These days, I would never trust a fight to have 'limits'.

I was never a good fighter. While in law enforcement, I learned takedowns and holds that got me by. Now I'm too broken down to fight or run. I have to try to avoid confrontations. I guess I would try to defend myself with my cane. Once he's taken that away from me, then he's got a deadly weapon. If I'm still able, I would have no choice but to try to protect my handgun and draw if necessary.

But there are people out there so big, scary and evil that all bets are off. I think that's what Hale faced.

RocTrac wrote:So, on another forum a guy is talking about getting hit and how having his (insert gun) would have made things all better.
Maybe it is my upbringing, but I was brought up "in a fist fight us your fists", "a fight is between 2 men, help is not needed or accepted"," take your lumps like a man"
Today, it seems like teens/young men are resorting to using weapons. This causes me to take things to the next step.
So, do you take a whipping? At what point do you resort to pulling your side arm?
Personally, I avoid situations that I would need my side arm. I first started getting concerned after Katrina and the crime rate began to climb in my neighborhood. At first just something in the home. As I watched the news and saw that more and more folks are being attacked in their cars or in parking lots. In New Orleans this was common place now it is common place here.
Personally, if my family is involved at all. I will take all available/extreme action.
If I am out numbered, or the other person is at all armed. I will take action.
I have taken a butt whipping before and will again.

RocTrac, I would say that it depends on a lot of factors such as your own physical condition, your ability to absorb punishment, whether or not your family is involved or at risk, whether or not your own behavior brought it on, etc. As Mike1951 pointed out regarding himself: A) he doesn't trust the opponent to have "limits" any longer because the culture has coarsened; and B) his own ability to fight unarmed and to take a beating, which wasn't that good before, has been drastically reduced by injury.

Mike's handle (Mike1951) and the fact that he took a whuppin' at age 17 which was 41 years ago tell me that he is one year older than I am, and I know exactly how he feels about it. I was never a great fighter, although for a time, martial arts training leveled the playing field somewhat for me (analogous to Mike's police training). These days, I am too crippled by cumulative back injuries including one resulting in an 8" scar up my lower spine to be any good in a physical fight.

Did you ever wonder why old dogs are more cranky than young pups? They just want to be left alone. They don't want to play rough; and you can take your stick/tennis ball/what-have-you and shove it in a dark, moist place. They're not interested. Two things decline in a man as he grows older. One is his natural male aggression. The other is his willingness to take punishment. He is less interested in the fight for its own sake, and more interested in survival. That leads to a certain mindset — call it "old dog" crankiness if you will — in which he avoids places where trouble is likely to develop (old dog wants to be left alone), and if trouble finds him anyway, he is more willing to use whatever means are necessary to defend himself (bite), because he is going to run out of options faster than a younger, more fit and aggressive individual (the ability to run away, for instance).

Because of my back, I live with a certain amount of pain every single day of my life. It is bearable, but I am definitely not interested in more of it. There is a direct correlation — although some guys don't want to admit it — between where and how you spend your time on the one hand, and the likelihood of getting into a physical confrontation on the other. I avoid those places where that is more likely to happen. I don't hang out in bars, for instance. I rarely ever drink, and when I do, it is in great moderation. I also avoid behaviors which can lead to confrontations. I don't drive aggressively for instance. I reserve my middle finger for politicians on the TV screen. I could cite a lot of other ways in which my personal behavior is deliberately calculated so as to minimize my need to ever have to defend myself. I've been doing it so long now that a lot of it is habitual and I rarely ever have to think about it.

Because I go out of my way to avoid trouble, I am far less willing to add more pain to my daily existence, and consequently, the threshold at which I am likely to feel pushed into drawing my weapon is shorter for me than it might be for a younger, more physically capable, more pain-free individual. I believe in a moral sense that my sober and cautious behavior more than offsets that shorter threshold.

I don't start fights and I don't behave in a way that would cause someone to start a fight with me; but I surely aim to finish a fight, because I am NOT going to take a beating from someone who brings trouble to my door. I'm too old for that crap.

To sum up what TAM said: Never pick a fight with an old man. If he is too tired to fight, he will just have to kill you.

If you carry a gun, and think there are such things as simple butt whippings, you are wrong. As soon as your opponent feels that gun on you, he will begin fighting for the gun and his life, and he may get the biggest adrenaline surge of his life, to boot.

There are no more butt whippings, there are only fights over the gun. Avoid them.

Need to keep thinking this one through.

I have deduced that I'm 10 years his senior. With the exception of his math,

Two things decline in a man as he grows older.

TAM has summed up the autumn of my years quite well.

Life is good, don't mess with it.

First Off MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!
Thanks for the replies, Mike and TAM.
Mike, I did not see or know of the particulars of Mr. Hale's situation. I am glad that he was able to stop the attack.
Guys, I understand the physical limitations that we all face.
Like you TAM, I don't go out to bars or drink. I avoid places/area's that are suspect. Keeping windows rolled up/doors locked, not being in park and picking a escape route are pretty much ingrained.
I have to drive through some pretty rough areas for work and think of situations and how to get out. I understand that there are some things that we can do nothing about or maybe just didn't see the situation evolving until it is to late to get out without presenting. Thanks for your time.
Carl

RocTrac wrote:Mike, I did not see or know of the particulars of Mr. Hale's situation. I am glad that he was able to stop the attack.

His attacker was much larger and Samoan, I believe.

RocTrac wrote:First Off MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!
Thanks for the replies, Mike and TAM.
Mike, I did not see or know of the particulars of Mr. Hale's situation. I am glad that he was able to stop the attack.
Guys, I understand the physical limitations that we all face.
Like you TAM, I don't go out to bars or drink. I avoid places/area's that are suspect. Keeping windows rolled up/doors locked, not being in park and picking a escape route are pretty much ingrained.
I have to drive through some pretty rough areas for work and think of situations and how to get out. I understand that there are some things that we can do nothing about or maybe just didn't see the situation evolving until it is to late to get out without presenting. Thanks for your time.
Carl

Hey, you do what you have to do. If your work takes you through some rough areas, then that's just the way it is, and like you said, you keep the doors locked, windows up, etc. I'm just glad you're a sober person who exercises caution wherever possible, and takes steps wherever possible to avoid trouble in the first place. My particular remarks about bars, behavior, etc., really address a few posts I've seen over the past couple of years here on this forum in which the OP talks about having been at a bar, out late, somebody's been drinkin', there was a verbal confrontation, trouble in the parking lot, someone pulls a gun... ...and the OP wants to know if he did the right thing by reacting this way or that way. Well, the right thing would have been to stay the heck out of honky tonks in the first place and stay sober, and the OP is surprised at the reactions he generates.

You're welcome for the time. It's no trouble at all. Merry Christmas to you.

IIRC Clint Smith says "if you are in a fair fight, your tactics suck" TAM is correct about older guys, knuckle bumps take a lot longer to heal up when you pass the age of 50. Situational awareness, being in Col Coopers operational "yellow" all the time is a very easy attitude to develop, with practice we can move from one stage to the next higher or back down without even having to consciously think through the changes. Far and away the fight avoided is the one to have, yet being aware of the ambient situation makes the advantage of "surprise" far less easy to attain against you.

Merry Christmas, and a Happy and prosperous New Year to each of the Forum members.

I'm getting too old for games.

I've never been in, and never will be in 'a fair fight'. Take a swing at me, I'm clocking you with whatever's closest at hand. If I feel that I'm in danger of serious bodily harm due to disparity of force and someone's demeanor, expect me to fight as my life depended on it (and it well may.)

You want to have a contest with me? We can arm wrestle, play tiddly-winks or drop trou and see who can write the longest sentence in the snow. I'm not taking a beating from anyone.

eta: I don't put myself into situations where I would "deserve" a beating. Ego bruises are never fatal, I don't mind walking away from a "jerk", when the alternative is my mouth writing a check that my body can't cash.

hows the saying go? I'm too young to die but too old to take a whoopin.