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A little known fact about iPhones/Apple can bit you in the rump, if you aren't careful. When an iPhone sends a text to another iPhone, the message is automatically converted to an iMessage. (I have no idea why this is done, unless to cause the very problems it is causing.) Once Apple has your phone number listed as using an iPhone, this status stays even if you switch to another phone and/or service provider. When another iPhone user tries to send you a text message, it is changed to an iMessage and it never gets through to you. To make matters worse, the person sending the message doesn't get an error message or any other notification. They think their message was delivered. Interestingly, Apple doesn't disclose this trap.

If you still have your old iPhone, it's easy to correct the problem by turning off the iMessage feature. Anywhere from 24 to 48 hours later, that number will be deleted from Apple's database and text messages will go through normally. Meanwhile, the sender will get an error message and the option to have the message sent as a regular text message.

If you don't still have your iPhone, you may be out of luck. You have to submit a "request" to Apple and hope, I do mean hope, that your number will be removed from their database. I have no idea why AT&T, Verison, etc. haven't sued Apple over this interruption of their customers' service. I learned of this only because my youngest son had this problem and researched it. My wife and I just switched from iPhones to Samsung Galaxy S4s and the phones are great. Thankfully, we still have our iPhones so we could correct the problem.

READ MORE HERE

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:...When an iPhone sends a text to another iPhone, the message is automatically converted to an iMessage. (I have no idea why this is done, unless to cause the very problems it is causing.) ...

Chas.

iMessages do not count against your phone plan's text messages, and they are/can be/(always?) routed through the internet if you are connected. If you have unlimited texting on your phone plan, then no big deal, but if you pay by the text message or have some texting limit, then iMessages can save you some money.

Since my wife and I both had iPhones, as well as my employer, this saved us some $$ -- I didn't bother to pay for any text messaging plans. Wasn't until it became a more widespread practice in my VFD to communicate by text messaging (and my wife picked up some friends that didn't have iPHones) that I had to break down and pay for unlimited texting.

Interesting note about turning off iMessage before ditching the phone tho -- I am about to upgrade us to newer phones, will have to remember this.

iMessages may well have saved people money at one point, but that's beside the point. Apple is losing customers to other phones, especially the Samsung Galaxy and HTC phones. It appears that Apple doesn't care about preventing a problem they know exists, likely because they don't care about former customers.

Apple's system is aware whether an iMessage is delivered or not, so why not 1) take the intended recipient's phone number out of their database when the message doesn't complete; and/or 2) notify the existing iPhone customer sending the text that it could not be delivered? Apple does the latter when a former customer turns off iMessaging, so it's certainly possible. The only logical answer is Apple doesn't care, even about former customers even if it creates problems for existing customers.

A key factor in this problem is the fact that Apple is knowingly hindering communication between citizens. I'm amazed that no cell carrier has sued Apple.

Chas.

ELB wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:...When an iPhone sends a text to another iPhone, the message is automatically converted to an iMessage. (I have no idea why this is done, unless to cause the very problems it is causing.) ...

Chas.

iMessages do not count against your phone plan's text messages, and they are/can be/(always?) routed through the internet if you are connected. If you have unlimited texting on your phone plan, then no big deal, but if you pay by the text message or have some texting limit, then iMessages can save you some money.

Since my wife and I both had iPhones, as well as my employer, this saved us some $$ -- I didn't bother to pay for any text messaging plans. Wasn't until it became a more widespread practice in my VFD to communicate by text messaging (and my wife picked up some friends that didn't have iPHones) that I had to break down and pay for unlimited texting.

Interesting note about turning off iMessage before ditching the phone tho -- I am about to upgrade us to newer phones, will have to remember this.

Does any company care about former customers except maybe to get them back as paying customers?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:iMessages may well have saved people money at one point, but that's beside the point. Apple is losing customers to other phones, especially the Samsung Galaxy and HTC phones. It appears that Apple doesn't care about preventing a problem they know exists, likely because they don't care about former customers.

Apple's system is aware whether an iMessage is delivered or not, so why not 1) take the intended recipient's phone number out of their database when the message doesn't complete; and/or 2) notify the existing iPhone customer sending the text that it could not be delivered? Apple does the latter when a former customer turns off iMessaging, so it's certainly possible. The only logical answer is Apple doesn't care, even about former customers even if it creates problems for existing customers.

A key factor in this problem is the fact that Apple is knowingly hindering communication between citizens. I'm amazed that no cell carrier has sued Apple.

Chas.

I'm sorry, Charles, but you are flat wrong. Apple cares about ALL it's customers, current and former. Former customers very well may become current customers at a later date. AppleCare has been rated #1 for customer service for 13 years in a row by Consumer Reports. There is not a single company on the planet that can approach their level of service. Yes, you do get the occasional advisor who is a jerk or just having a bad day, but those are pretty rare.

As for this issue, I know for a fact that AppleCare Senior Advisors have access to the iCloud backend and can easily disable/enable parts of the system for iCloud accounts. How do I know this? Because I WAS a Senior Advisor and did things like this daily. Sometimes, in particularly odd cases, I'd have to escalate it to engineering. But those were few and far between. And those are always, ALWAYS, followed up within 3 days. Also, if you are getting rid of an iPhone (heck, ANY phone for that matter), it is in your best interest to wipe it first. Regarding this issue, wiping the phone would automatically sever the iCloud connection and, hence, prevent this from being an issue. An in-operable iPhone wouldn't be able to do that of course, but again, a simple call to AppleCare can take care of that.

As for the one lady in that article who got a new phone number that had previously been tied to an iPhone, that is a sticky situation. She didn't have an iPhone. Had never had an iPhone. So Apple does indeed have a liability issue severing someone else's iMessages connection to that number. In that particular case, pretty much all Apple could do is let it wait until it's lack of use fell out of the system.

Oh, BTW, I'd be cautious claiming that Apple is "losing customers to other phones". Especially since iPhone sales account for 50% (approx) of all smart phone sales in the US *AND* worldwide markets. Completely anecdotal, but of my friends who switched to Android phones (including the Galaxy), all but 1 of them dumped the phones within the 14 day return period and went back to iPhone. *shrug*

RottenApple wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:iMessages may well have saved people money at one point, but that's beside the point. Apple is losing customers to other phones, especially the Samsung Galaxy and HTC phones. It appears that Apple doesn't care about preventing a problem they know exists, likely because they don't care about former customers.

Apple's system is aware whether an iMessage is delivered or not, so why not 1) take the intended recipient's phone number out of their database when the message doesn't complete; and/or 2) notify the existing iPhone customer sending the text that it could not be delivered? Apple does the latter when a former customer turns off iMessaging, so it's certainly possible. The only logical answer is Apple doesn't care, even about former customers even if it creates problems for existing customers.

A key factor in this problem is the fact that Apple is knowingly hindering communication between citizens. I'm amazed that no cell carrier has sued Apple.

Chas.

I'm sorry, Charles, but you are flat wrong. Apple cares about ALL it's customers, current and former. Former customers very well may become current customers at a later date. AppleCare has been rated #1 for customer service for 13 years in a row by Consumer Reports. There is not a single company on the planet that can approach their level of service. Yes, you do get the occasional advisor who is a jerk or just having a bad day, but those are pretty rare.

As for this issue, I know for a fact that AppleCare Senior Advisors have access to the iCloud backend and can easily disable/enable parts of the system for iCloud accounts. How do I know this? Because I WAS a Senior Advisor and did things like this daily. Sometimes, in particularly odd cases, I'd have to escalate it to engineering. But those were few and far between. And those are always, ALWAYS, followed up within 3 days. Also, if you are getting rid of an iPhone (heck, ANY phone for that matter), it is in your best interest to wipe it first. Regarding this issue, wiping the phone would automatically sever the iCloud connection and, hence, prevent this from being an issue. An in-operable iPhone wouldn't be able to do that of course, but again, a simple call to AppleCare can take care of that.

As for the one lady in that article who got a new phone number that had previously been tied to an iPhone, that is a sticky situation. She didn't have an iPhone. Had never had an iPhone. So Apple does indeed have a liability issue severing someone else's iMessages connection to that number. In that particular case, pretty much all Apple could do is let it wait until it's lack of use fell out of the system.

Oh, BTW, I'd be cautious claiming that Apple is "losing customers to other phones". Especially since iPhone sales account for 50% (approx) of all smart phone sales in the US *AND* worldwide markets. Completely anecdotal, but of my friends who switched to Android phones (including the Galaxy), all but 1 of them dumped the phones within the 14 day return period and went back to iPhone. *shrug*

I obviously hit a nerve with this post. My oldest son also lives and breaths everything Apple and he'll stick with them regardless how far they fall behind the industry. Even the iOS7 disaster hasn't deterred him in the least and it was/is a clear attempt to make the antiquated iPhone look like something closer to the Galaxy. I asked the salesman at AT&T what was selling the best and were there many iPhone customers switching. He laughed and said the Galaxy (S4 and Notes) were killing iPhones. This comment along with what I have read on the Internet were the basis of my statement about iPhone. Yes, the Apple loyalists are still buying new phones, but they apparently are a decreasing segment of the phone-buying public. Everyone I know who has made the switch from iPhone to Galaxy aren't going back, Martha and I included. Apple has also lost the younger generation. I work with the student ministry at our church and you rarely see high school kids with iPhones. They have Galaxies, HTC's and some cheaper phones, but not iPhones.

The article I posted was just that -- one article. The iMessage problem is all over the Internet. Apple's customer service may be great for its current customers, but the fact that don't quickly correct reported problem from former customers is telling. They don't even claim they can't fix the problem, because that would be an absurd claim. Take the number out of their system. If you turn off iMessages, then the number is automatically removed in 24 to 48 hours, so Apple clearly has the capability. What is amazing is that they are hurting their existing customers as well, as it is their text messages that aren't getting through. Need more proof that Apple doesn't care? Add this fact -- Apple doesn't even send an error message to the sender if the message fails to deliver, unless the recipient knew to turn off iMessages before switching to a new phone.

I really don't care one way or another about Apple or iPhones. I carried one for years, but I'm not part of the near-cult following Apple enjoys. I just don't want my clients' text messages failing to get through to me because Apple 1) didn't prepare for this problem; 2) ignores the problem when a current and/or former customer reports it; and 3) didn't even bother to inform customers that the problem absolutely will occur if they decide to get a different phone without turning off iMessages. Again, I'm surprised no carrier has sued them yet, as they are intercepting and blocking text messages.

Chas.

USA Today - 9/19/13 wrote:As it stands now, Apple is on a market-share slide. Last quarter, it posted a significant upside surprise in iPhone shipments at 31 million units, but nonetheless, its share of the global smartphone market fell to 13.2% from 17.3% in Q1. http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2013 ... e/2838607/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RottenApple wrote:I'm sorry, Charles, but you are flat wrong. Apple cares about ALL it's customers

They care about money.

Good article comparing the 5S and the S4
http://www.trustedreviews.com/opinions/ ... -galaxy-s4
by Andrew Williams 24 October 2013

"Verdict
In terms of pure specs, the iPhone 5S doesn't appear to have a huge upper hand over the Samsung Galaxy S4. However, look very close indeed and you'll see where those extra months of progress have gone. The various tech tweaks and the more efficient CPU make the 5S the most technologically impressive phone."

"The Galaxy S4 sounds more powerful, but it is not. Benchmarks show that the iPhone 5S is a significantly more powerful phone, and it's also the first 64-bit phone produced."

"The Samsung Galaxy S4 has experienced a few problems. Its battery has been the biggest issue. There have been reports of batteries draining down very quickly, and even of them swelling up. Samsung has responded (always a sign that an issue is serious) by offering battery replacements to any owners of Galaxy S4s affected by the problem."

Battery life has always been a major decision factor for me. I have had 3 iPhones over the years and every one of them has out preformed all of the android based phones that my coworkers have purchased. As you can see from the quote above, the battery has been a major concern for the S4. That alone is all I need to pass on this phone. I can use my phone heavily throughout the day without needing to recharge. That ability for me is non-negotiable.

Said all that to say this, do I like the way Apple does everything? No. Do I wish they would add some features available on other phones? Yes. Do they treat ex customers worse than other manufacturers? I have no clue. Is iPhone still the the most technologically impressive phone on the market? Absolutely. Will I be purchasing the 5S tomorrow? More than likely.

BTW, I wholeheartedly regret the day I brought home 2 Macs. I absolutely hate the things and can't wait to move back to the PC world. But I do love my iPad. Go figure.
As far as market share, that doesn't mean much to me. I'm not one to buy a product because it is what everyone else is using. I research and buy based on what best suits my needs.

RottenApple wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:iMessages may well have saved people money at one point, but that's beside the point. Apple is losing customers to other phones, especially the Samsung Galaxy and HTC phones. It appears that Apple doesn't care about preventing a problem they know exists, likely because they don't care about former customers.

Apple's system is aware whether an iMessage is delivered or not, so why not 1) take the intended recipient's phone number out of their database when the message doesn't complete; and/or 2) notify the existing iPhone customer sending the text that it could not be delivered? Apple does the latter when a former customer turns off iMessaging, so it's certainly possible. The only logical answer is Apple doesn't care, even about former customers even if it creates problems for existing customers.

A key factor in this problem is the fact that Apple is knowingly hindering communication between citizens. I'm amazed that no cell carrier has sued Apple.

Chas.

I'm sorry, Charles, but you are flat wrong. Apple cares about ALL it's customers, current and former. Former customers very well may become current customers at a later date. AppleCare has been rated #1 for customer service for 13 years in a row by Consumer Reports. There is not a single company on the planet that can approach their level of service. Yes, you do get the occasional advisor who is a jerk or just having a bad day, but those are pretty rare.

As for this issue, I know for a fact that AppleCare Senior Advisors have access to the iCloud backend and can easily disable/enable parts of the system for iCloud accounts. How do I know this? Because I WAS a Senior Advisor and did things like this daily. Sometimes, in particularly odd cases, I'd have to escalate it to engineering. But those were few and far between. And those are always, ALWAYS, followed up within 3 days. Also, if you are getting rid of an iPhone (heck, ANY phone for that matter), it is in your best interest to wipe it first. Regarding this issue, wiping the phone would automatically sever the iCloud connection and, hence, prevent this from being an issue. An in-operable iPhone wouldn't be able to do that of course, but again, a simple call to AppleCare can take care of that.

As for the one lady in that article who got a new phone number that had previously been tied to an iPhone, that is a sticky situation. She didn't have an iPhone. Had never had an iPhone. So Apple does indeed have a liability issue severing someone else's iMessages connection to that number. In that particular case, pretty much all Apple could do is let it wait until it's lack of use fell out of the system.

Oh, BTW, I'd be cautious claiming that Apple is "losing customers to other phones". Especially since iPhone sales account for 50% (approx) of all smart phone sales in the US *AND* worldwide markets. Completely anecdotal, but of my friends who switched to Android phones (including the Galaxy), all but 1 of them dumped the phones within the 14 day return period and went back to iPhone. *shrug*

Sorry, my wife's and stepdaughter's experiences with their Iphones and lack of response on Apple's part, plus the arrogance and rudeness of the customer service people indicate to me that the issue that was escalated to engineering fell somewhere outside the "always" (on the order of weeks without a response). We got very tired of the runaround and just gave up, but at next renewal time you can bet the Iphones are going in the trash where they belong. Applecare didn't care, so neither do we.

jimlongley wrote:

RottenApple wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:iMessages may well have saved people money at one point, but that's beside the point. Apple is losing customers to other phones, especially the Samsung Galaxy and HTC phones. It appears that Apple doesn't care about preventing a problem they know exists, likely because they don't care about former customers.

Apple's system is aware whether an iMessage is delivered or not, so why not 1) take the intended recipient's phone number out of their database when the message doesn't complete; and/or 2) notify the existing iPhone customer sending the text that it could not be delivered? Apple does the latter when a former customer turns off iMessaging, so it's certainly possible. The only logical answer is Apple doesn't care, even about former customers even if it creates problems for existing customers.

A key factor in this problem is the fact that Apple is knowingly hindering communication between citizens. I'm amazed that no cell carrier has sued Apple.

Chas.

I'm sorry, Charles, but you are flat wrong. Apple cares about ALL it's customers, current and former. Former customers very well may become current customers at a later date. AppleCare has been rated #1 for customer service for 13 years in a row by Consumer Reports. There is not a single company on the planet that can approach their level of service. Yes, you do get the occasional advisor who is a jerk or just having a bad day, but those are pretty rare.

As for this issue, I know for a fact that AppleCare Senior Advisors have access to the iCloud backend and can easily disable/enable parts of the system for iCloud accounts. How do I know this? Because I WAS a Senior Advisor and did things like this daily. Sometimes, in particularly odd cases, I'd have to escalate it to engineering. But those were few and far between. And those are always, ALWAYS, followed up within 3 days. Also, if you are getting rid of an iPhone (heck, ANY phone for that matter), it is in your best interest to wipe it first. Regarding this issue, wiping the phone would automatically sever the iCloud connection and, hence, prevent this from being an issue. An in-operable iPhone wouldn't be able to do that of course, but again, a simple call to AppleCare can take care of that.

As for the one lady in that article who got a new phone number that had previously been tied to an iPhone, that is a sticky situation. She didn't have an iPhone. Had never had an iPhone. So Apple does indeed have a liability issue severing someone else's iMessages connection to that number. In that particular case, pretty much all Apple could do is let it wait until it's lack of use fell out of the system.

Oh, BTW, I'd be cautious claiming that Apple is "losing customers to other phones". Especially since iPhone sales account for 50% (approx) of all smart phone sales in the US *AND* worldwide markets. Completely anecdotal, but of my friends who switched to Android phones (including the Galaxy), all but 1 of them dumped the phones within the 14 day return period and went back to iPhone. *shrug*

Sorry, my wife's and stepdaughter's experiences with their Iphones and lack of response on Apple's part, plus the arrogance and rudeness of the customer service people indicate to me that the issue that was escalated to engineering fell somewhere outside the "always" (on the order of weeks without a response). We got very tired of the runaround and just gave up, but at next renewal time you can bet the Iphones are going in the trash where they belong. Applecare didn't care, so neither do we.

Did you call or did you go to the Apple store? I've never had an issue that needed to be resolved but I've also purchased and setup all of my iPhones at the Apple store. Have always received great service.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:When another iPhone user tries to send you a text message, it is changed to an iMessage and it never gets through to you. To make matters worse, the person sending the message doesn't get an error message or any other notification. They think their message was delivered.

There's a setting for resending failed iMessages as regular text messages. Back when iMessage was introduced, it was turned on by default, but maybe that's changed.

jmra wrote:

jimlongley wrote:

RottenApple wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:iMessages may well have saved people money at one point, but that's beside the point. Apple is losing customers to other phones, especially the Samsung Galaxy and HTC phones. It appears that Apple doesn't care about preventing a problem they know exists, likely because they don't care about former customers.

Apple's system is aware whether an iMessage is delivered or not, so why not 1) take the intended recipient's phone number out of their database when the message doesn't complete; and/or 2) notify the existing iPhone customer sending the text that it could not be delivered? Apple does the latter when a former customer turns off iMessaging, so it's certainly possible. The only logical answer is Apple doesn't care, even about former customers even if it creates problems for existing customers.

A key factor in this problem is the fact that Apple is knowingly hindering communication between citizens. I'm amazed that no cell carrier has sued Apple.

Chas.

I'm sorry, Charles, but you are flat wrong. Apple cares about ALL it's customers, current and former. Former customers very well may become current customers at a later date. AppleCare has been rated #1 for customer service for 13 years in a row by Consumer Reports. There is not a single company on the planet that can approach their level of service. Yes, you do get the occasional advisor who is a jerk or just having a bad day, but those are pretty rare.

As for this issue, I know for a fact that AppleCare Senior Advisors have access to the iCloud backend and can easily disable/enable parts of the system for iCloud accounts. How do I know this? Because I WAS a Senior Advisor and did things like this daily. Sometimes, in particularly odd cases, I'd have to escalate it to engineering. But those were few and far between. And those are always, ALWAYS, followed up within 3 days. Also, if you are getting rid of an iPhone (heck, ANY phone for that matter), it is in your best interest to wipe it first. Regarding this issue, wiping the phone would automatically sever the iCloud connection and, hence, prevent this from being an issue. An in-operable iPhone wouldn't be able to do that of course, but again, a simple call to AppleCare can take care of that.

As for the one lady in that article who got a new phone number that had previously been tied to an iPhone, that is a sticky situation. She didn't have an iPhone. Had never had an iPhone. So Apple does indeed have a liability issue severing someone else's iMessages connection to that number. In that particular case, pretty much all Apple could do is let it wait until it's lack of use fell out of the system.

Oh, BTW, I'd be cautious claiming that Apple is "losing customers to other phones". Especially since iPhone sales account for 50% (approx) of all smart phone sales in the US *AND* worldwide markets. Completely anecdotal, but of my friends who switched to Android phones (including the Galaxy), all but 1 of them dumped the phones within the 14 day return period and went back to iPhone. *shrug*

Sorry, my wife's and stepdaughter's experiences with their Iphones and lack of response on Apple's part, plus the arrogance and rudeness of the customer service people indicate to me that the issue that was escalated to engineering fell somewhere outside the "always" (on the order of weeks without a response). We got very tired of the runaround and just gave up, but at next renewal time you can bet the Iphones are going in the trash where they belong. Applecare didn't care, so neither do we.

Did you call or did you go to the Apple store? I've never had an issue that needed to be resolved but I've also purchased and setup all of my iPhones at the Apple store. Have always received great service.

The Apple store was even less than useless. After tinkering with my wife's phone for a half hour, they then said we should be calling Applecare.

I don't need any more suggestions, the issue is over, the phones are trash the day the contract expires.

Jim, send 'em to me instead of trashing them... I'll have one of my students, who makes a bit of spare change repairing iPhones, recycle them for you!

This is an interesting post to follow. Being in the technical field for well.. a lot of years. Apple does have it's "Challenges". I have used various providers, phone makers, and the whole nine yards. Android phones have their usefulness just as the iPhone has. Previously to my having the iPhone I had the original T-Mobile G1 (first Google/Android phone). Since then I have owned various Android based phones. I convinced my ex to get an Android phone because of all the cool things I could do once I rooted the phone and could tinker with things. Every thing has their ups and downs or pros and cons. Being a linux geek, I loved the fact that my phone under the covers was no different then my servers and I could goof around with it just as much. Today I use my iPhone for everything. I have a work and personal phone that are phone Iphones. The reason being is that my iPhone has more productivity then my Android phones did. When something goes wrong with my iPhone (either of them) I pick up the phone and call AppleCare to troubleshoot over the phone. If I can't resolve it over the phone with them I am scheduled to an appointment with the AppleStore (we got ours about a year ago I want to say). I have found that Apple will take further care of my complaints and resolve my issues then any other carrier. When my HTC Evo was having battery issues I had to call Sprint, Sprint had to troubleshoot it, Sprint then had to call HTC to see if they could replace parts, the warranty was expired, and so much more.

Apple has their fair share of mess ups. iOS 7 has its faults (being that the fact people could break the security was HUGE and caused a lot of problems for our company)but so has various versions of Android OS (I can remember a few with Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich). This is the nature of IT and Smart Phones. You will NEVER get a perfect product. When dealing with iPhone vs Android majority of the tech people I work with daily with will go to iPhone because it does "work" and if not it is easy to go straight to Apple (AppleCare / Apple Store) to get a resolve then it is to deal with Phone Carrier, Phone Maker, and Maybe Google Forums for help.
'
Apple's strong point is their own downside, they want to control EVERYTHING. I can say that in the years I have dealt with Apple and PC that can be both a con and pro. Controlling the hardware and the operating system allows them the flexibility to see just how everything will work in almost every condition. There is no worrying about a driver for a certain piece of hardware that isn't certified. There is lots of documentation to how things work because of their understanding of the hardware they put in followed by the way they know their own OS. But like I said nothing is perfect and may have a side that needs to be fixed / tweaked. Generally they are good about customer feedback.

Agreed on the getting rid of a phone,please PLEASE make sure you wipe the phone.

As a lifelong techie I find very few things that can frustrate me as much as the Iphones. I used to teach Motorola iDEN before it was ever released to the public, to Motorola. Back when the Radio Shack TRS-80 and the Apple II were state of the art, and Apple's big boast was how open they were, I repaired my own and others' without regard for platform, with ease. I eve wrote my own DOS once to give me a minimal boot so I could do testing without having to do a complete boot.

Although technology has gotten way more complicated since I retired, customer service hasn't, and the lack of service from Apple eliminates them from consideration as a future supplier of my needs. Apple care (or more appropriately Apple don't care) wanted us to go to the Apple store, the Apple store we went to, the one we were referred to by Apple care, was not the store we obtained my wife's phone from, so they didn't want to touch it. So we went to the other, and as I said, they tinkered with it, out of our sight of course, and then told us we were going to have to call Apple care to get it referred to engineering, who didn't bother to call back for a week, and then the phone had to be sent in.

My wife insisted on getting the Iphone so she could video chat with her daughter, and both of their phones suffered the same problem and were handled just as incompetently, in two different states.

When the contract is up, they get used to test the garbage disposal, and the result gets sent back to Apple.