Scott Farkus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:39 pm
Now, you've got "our guy", Trump, doing something administratively that even Obama didn't think he had the legal authority to do. It's going to set a horrible precedent if it stands.
This may cost Trump votes in 2020, not necessarily votes that go to his opponents but aren’t cast at all.
It already cost him mine. I will vote in 2020 but I won't vote for Trump no matter who else is on the ballot.
I understand taking a stand... really I do. But if Hillary runs again are you still okay with not voting for DJT? Maybe shotgun Joe? Maybe you will be allowed to keep your shotguns...
Do I think DJT banning bump stocks is the way to go? No. Do I have a bump stock? Also no. Call me a fudd if you want but I would rather vote for DJT and work toward keeping and expanding gun rights rather than losing to Hildabeast. Oh and do you think for one second Shrillary wouldn't have signed bump stocks away given the chance? I bet so fast we wouldn't have known what happened.
Syntyr
"Wherever you go... There you are." - Buckaroo Banzai
"Inconceivable!" - Fizzinni
Scott Farkus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:39 pm
Now, you've got "our guy", Trump, doing something administratively that even Obama didn't think he had the legal authority to do. It's going to set a horrible precedent if it stands.
This may cost Trump votes in 2020, not necessarily votes that go to his opponents but aren’t cast at all.
It already cost him mine. I will vote in 2020 but I won't vote for Trump no matter who else is on the ballot.
The way things are going, I have a feeling Trump won't be on the ballot in 2020.
Scott Farkus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:39 pm
Now, you've got "our guy", Trump, doing something administratively that even Obama didn't think he had the legal authority to do. It's going to set a horrible precedent if it stands.
This may cost Trump votes in 2020, not necessarily votes that go to his opponents but aren’t cast at all.
You're right, it will cost him 3 or 4 votes. Again, pick your battles.
Chas.
I'm not saying I won't vote for him if he is the Republican nominee. Again, I would just like to see the evidence that bump stocks were actually used in the Las Vegas shooting, at least something more than FBI/ATF saying "trust us, we wouldn't lie."
A recent article I read said that using bump stock while shooting at the down angle from the hotel room to the concert grounds that gravity would work against the bump stock's performing as designed.
This wouldn't even be a "battle" if Trump hadn't just jumped on the gun grabbers bandwagon from the beginning of the incident.
The left lies about everything. Truth is a liberal value, and truth is a conservative value, but it has never been a left-wing value. People on the left say whatever advances their immediate agenda. Power is their moral lodestar; therefore, truth is always subservient to it. - Dennis Prager
Scott Farkus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:39 pm
Now, you've got "our guy", Trump, doing something administratively that even Obama didn't think he had the legal authority to do. It's going to set a horrible precedent if it stands.
This may cost Trump votes in 2020, not necessarily votes that go to his opponents but aren’t cast at all.
You're right, it will cost him 3 or 4 votes. Again, pick your battles.
Chas.
I'm not saying I won't vote for him if he is the Republican nominee. Again, I would just like to see the evidence that bump stocks were actually used in the Las Vegas shooting, at least something more than FBI/ATF saying "trust us, we wouldn't lie."
A recent article I read said that using bump stock while shooting at the down angle from the hotel room to the concert grounds that gravity would work against the bump stock's performing as designed.
This wouldn't even be a "battle" if Trump hadn't just jumped on the gun grabbers bandwagon from the beginning of the incident.
No one outside of DC has any clue what was going on after Las Vegas. Narrowing the focus to only bump-stocks was masterful, regardless what anyone wants to claim.
As long as Trump is putting Pro Gun Constitutionalist Judges on the courts he has my vote! This isn't just about here and now, this is about the future!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here- John Parker
While Trump has forwarded Constitutionalist in our court system. He has done nothing specifically to forward gun rights. He has neglected to change confusing ACOE and USPS bans and instead of supporting removing suppressor and shot barrel restrictions and tax stamps he forwards stock restrictions and bans. This wouldn't be so offensive but he was pretty proud of his NRA endorsement and made a lot of political hay about it when he ran for office and needed our votes and money. He sold out for political expediency and given us nothing lip service since being elected.
Tump may have a long list of accomplishments, but taking direct actions supporting our 2nd amendment rights ain't one of them.
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy
Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:44 pm
Narrowing the focus to only bump-stocks was masterful, regardless what anyone wants to claim.
Chas.
So Charles, are you saying that this is why the NRA took a stance in favor of a ban? What would have been the likely outcome if NRA had just left it alone?
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:44 pm
Narrowing the focus to only bump-stocks was masterful, regardless what anyone wants to claim.
Chas.
What would have been the likely outcome if NRA had just left it alone?
A ban on all AR platform firearms. With 58 dead, almost 500 wounded and several hundred more injured trying to escape, this was an event with a political impact far greater than anything previously experienced.
Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:44 pm
Narrowing the focus to only bump-stocks was masterful, regardless what anyone wants to claim.
Chas.
What would have been the likely outcome if NRA had just left it alone?
A ban on all AR platform firearms. With 58 dead, almost 500 wounded and several hundred more injured trying to escape, this was an event with a political impact far greater than anything previously experienced.
Chas.
What happens when the next one of this magnitude happens and there are no more sacrificial lambs (bump stocks)?
I'm with TAM. Annoyed that the NRA and Trump took the stance they did but am not revoking my life membership or voting other than Trump in 2020.
It would just be nice to know the truth as to what really happened in Vegas.
In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law to pursue a natural justice.
Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:44 pm
Narrowing the focus to only bump-stocks was masterful, regardless what anyone wants to claim.
Chas.
What would have been the likely outcome if NRA had just left it alone?
A ban on all AR platform firearms. With 58 dead, almost 500 wounded and several hundred more injured trying to escape, this was an event with a political impact far greater than anything previously experienced.
Chas.
What happens when the next one of this magnitude happens and there are no more sacrificial lambs (bump stocks)?
I'm with TAM. Annoyed that the NRA and Trump took the stance they did but am not revoking my life membership or voting other than Trump in 2020.
It would just be nice to know the truth as to what really happened in Vegas.
Charle’s explanation makes sense to me, and helps me to understand why the NRA did what it did. Thank you Charles.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
Recently, there has been a push from some quarters to reconsider Auer deference, Chevron deference, and other aspects of the modern administrative law state, and overturn them as being inherently unconstitutional; specifically, that such deference to bureaucratic decisions violates the required Separation of Powers.
Were that to happen, the current administrative state would be rocked to its core. While there have been some rumblings from Justice Thomas and others in this regard, there did not appear to be a majority on the Supreme Court interested in potentially unleashing this kind of political earthquake. (Scalia and Kennedy were, at best, squishy on the issue.)
Today, however, the Supreme Court granted cert in a case, Kisor v. Wilkie, that specifically challenges whether Auer deference is constitutional. With the addition of Justices Gorsuch and Kavanaugh — both of whom have expressed reservations about the current state of administrative law — there may now indeed be the five votes needed to begin to undo the decades-long abdication of power to the vast federal bureaucracy, including BATFE.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams
The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:38 pm
Charle’s explanation makes sense to me, and helps me to understand why the NRA did what it did. Thank you Charles.
In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law to pursue a natural justice.
You will surely recall the push to ban all airplanes that resulted from 3,000 dead Americans after 9/11. That 3,000 paled in importance to the much greater number of 58 dead in Las Vegas. It's a miracle we were able to hold on to any of our remaining rights at all after Vegas. I'm just glad the government decided against immediately executing everyone to prevent future murders. We owe our continued existence to the kindness of our rulers.
When people die at the hands of murderous criminals, our federal government acts counter to its very reason for existence and takes away people's god given rights. But only if those rights relate to the 2nd Amendment. If there is no way to tie guns to a death, then we just acknowledge the death as the tragedy that it is and seek out actual solutions that might prevent similar deaths in the future.
This is all just a pretense for the liberal goal of a totalitarian nanny state. I would love to see an organization that actually had any chance of being effective at pushing back against this modern attempt to undo the very purpose for the founding of this country. If such an organization ever arises, I will support them with everything I have.
After all, you know what our founders thought should happen when a government acts counter to its very reason for being established in the first place....
Fox news reported that the final bump stock law is in effect and there is a 90 days window to get rid of the devices. They must be destroyed or turned in to your local ATF office.
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