my pleasant phone experiance with the chl people in austin

[gandalf23]

This is my first post here, just found out about the site. Sorry to rant on and on, but gah! this really has me steamed.

I do have a few questions, so if this is too long, please hop down to the bottom to see them. Thanks.



Last December I took a CHL class. I did not immediatley mail my check out, as Christmas was around the corner. I mailed it out at the end of January or early February. Either way, my March statement from my bank showed the check was cashed, which menas it was probably late February or early March when they cashed it.

The check was in the same envelope as my fingerprints, the instructors paperwork showing I’d taken and passed the class, and all the paperwork I had to fill out.

In March I got a package from the Texas Department of Public Safety. Yay! No, no yay. Inside was a letter saying that they’d lost or I had not ever sent the paperwork. It was in the same envelope with the check!

I double checked, and I did not have it, so I filled everything out on the forms they sent me and sent it back in the envelope they provided. They apparently had received the check, fingerprints, photo, and the instructor's certificate because I was not asked to do that over.

In May I got another package from DPS. Yay! Nope, still no yay :(

This one said that they’d misplaced or I had not sent in my application paperwork, and asked me to sign another copy. Sounds kinda familliar. This time the paperwork was already filled out, all that was left was needing my signature. what the heck? The only thing I could guess was that they had entered the info into their system, then lost my original paperwork, and wanted an original signed copy to have on file somewhere. The day after I got this package it was in the mail in the large envelope they provided, headed down to Austin all nice and signed.

Several weeks ago I got a letter from the DPS with my pin number. With this pin number I can track my application on their website. However, the letter they sent me was all smeared, and was unreadable. Like the ink was still veryvery wet when the letter was folded up and it was smeared all over. The only reason I knew what the letter even was was that my brother in law, who took the CHL class the same day as I, had received one. I called Austin and asked for my pin number, they said they could not give it to me, it had to be mailed, and it had already been mailed. Great. I said I received it but it was all smeared and unreadable, they basically said tough poop.

Yay!

So now it’s ummm… the end of September. Last week I called down to Austin every day. Each time I called, when I actually got through, I was given the run around. I worked tech support for several years, I know the run around when I give it or receive it :) “She not in her desk� “The man responsible for your case is not in right now� (note the different genders) “She’ll be back to lunch after 2pm� “I can’t give you any info, you have to put your pin into the website to find out.� blah blah blah. Basically No one would give me their name or the name of the person supposedly working on my application. I believe this violates the law, as they are state employees and are supposed to tell me their name if I ask. I have always found it to be a bad sign when folks will not tell you their name, especially if they are a 'gov employee.

Yesterday, September 25th, I call again. Right off the bat I get through. Wow! Talk to a nice lady, un-named of course, let's call her JaneDoe#1 who looks up my application.

“Oh, here’s the problem�

What? What is the problem?!

According to her, the DPS had sent my info to Erath County Sheriff and Tarrant County Sheriff to get a background check done, and neither county had returned the info, so the application was stalled out.

“When did y’all send it to them?�

“It does not record the day it was sent out in our system.�

“Can you send them again? Maybe they didn’t get them.�

“No, not unless they tell us they didn’t get them.�

!!!!!

“How would they know they didn’t get a fax if they didn’t get it? �

“…�

"Ok, whatever. Umm...ok, then what do you do if they don’t ever respond?�

“After 30 days it automatically gets sent out again.�

“How do you know if it’s been 30 days?�

“...the computer knows?�

So I call the Erath Sheriff, they say no record they ever got anything, and if it arrives today the nice lady will take care of it today, because “that’s just awful� that it’s taken so long. Got the fax number and her name.

Called the Tarrant Sheriff. Same thing, no record that the state ever sent anything for me. Gah! Got their fax number, and the lady’s name who handles this, she also said if the state faxed it today she would take care of it today and send it right back out.

So I call back to Austin.

On hold…

Then the system kicks me off, on hold too long.

Call again. On hold…

Get through to JaneDoe#2. She is not sure if they can re-fax the info, has to check with supervisor. Would not or can not verify the fax numbers as “you could be making those up.�

Would not identify herself or her supervisor.

Back on hold.

Time spent with two seperate sheriff departments? Less than 10 minutes total. Time spent on hold with DPS? Over half an hour!

Transfered to a mailbox, but it’s full and once again, kicked off.

Gah!

And again, transfered to the full mailbox and kicked off.


Call DPS again and again, got through finally.

Different lady from the two who I spoke to this morning. We can call her JaneDoe#3. Tells me the same thing, Erath and Tarrant are the hold up.

“I just got off the phone with FriendlyLawEnforcementLady#1 at ECSO and FriendlyLawEnforcementLady#2 at TCSO, they said you’d never sent them anything. Are you sure you are faxing it to the right number?�

“Who told you to call them?�

“I did? Why?�

“You’re not supposed to do that!�

Then went into a rant about how the system was working and I only applied in July and? It was January/February!

“We show you made payment on March 28th!�

“umm, it was before that, but whatever, that may be when it showed up on your end. Fine. Then it’s been since March!�

“NO! You didn’t do it right and we had to send it back twice. blah blah blah. Clock reseted when the paperwork arrived finally on July 10th�

“July 10th? That was two months _after_ I mailed it back the last time! I mailed it in May!�

“That’s impossible sir, it only takes 7 to 10 days for processing to get it to us.�

“Dunno about that, but it was mailed back in May, the day after I received it. And if I ‘did it wrong’ how come y’all sent it to me the second time all filled out already?�

“Ummm…It’s Tarrant and Erath that is the delay sir, can’t do anything till they get back to us.�

Then more talk about how the system is automated and it works and everything is fine and I should just shut up and wait. Somehow June 19th comes out, I think that’s when the paperwork was actually received, but she clamed up about that date and kept repeating July 10th after that, athough occasionally she would still say June 19th. Which is Juneteenth, and a friend of mine’s birthday. Weird, anyway…

Then JaneDoe#3 says that it’s sent “electronically� to Tarrant and Erath counties, and it takes 7 to 10 business days to get there. (someone else was dictating what she was saying, I could hear this other female voice in the background, JaneDoe#4, telling JaneDoe#3 what to say)

huh?

“Electronic like a fax?�

“Faxes are not electronic, sir!�

“Yes, they are. And how does it take 7 to 10 days for it to get to Tarrant or Erath “electronically�? Are you sending it by mail? By US Mail? “

“The system. does. it. auto-matic-ally. elec-tronic-ally. sir.�

“What does that mean? Can you send it electronically again? They say they haven’t received it.�

“They are probably lying.�

you are saying that two seperate law enforcement entities in Texas, seperately, are both deciding to lie to me about this? And, independantly, they came up with the same exact story? You're really saying this?

“…No, I am not saying they are lying. Maybe you just spoke to someone who didn’t deal with us and they just told you something to get you to go away.�

“That _is_ lying! You’re saying they are lying! Maybe I’m talking to someone like that now! I need to talk to your supervisor or someone else who can help me with this.

“…ummm…�

“Now, please. “

“Hold!�

On hold for a while.

“Transferring you to “Judy�.�

On hold for a while more. I suspect that JaneDoe#4, the woman telling #3 what to say earlier, will turn out to be "Judy".

“How can I help you?�

Go through the whole thing again. Dates stuff was done, what’s the hold up, again she says it’s Tarrant and Erath. Well I called them.

“What? Why would you do that? Who told you to do that? You shouldn’t do that!�

Went into a long speach about why they don’t recommend to people to call the police themselves as they, the police, are not “required�, “by law�, to answer my questions about stuff concerning my CHL application. Her very heavy implication was that if they are not “required by law� to answer it they are going to all lie. Once again the DPS is suggesting that the sheriffs are lying to me. Call me crazy, but I don't believe the DPS people right about now.

Then she says “We don’t deal with the sheriffs offices. “

Ok, then who _do_ you deal with?

“..� No answer on that.

“Judy� says that the info (never did find out what they are sending or expecting from the police office, I assume it’s a background check, but both Judy and unnamed woman #2 said they’d received the FBI background report, so what else it there? and what could Tarrant or Erath see in their records that Austin can’t? anyway…) is sent every 30 days automatically if they have not gotten a response.

“Have you gotten a response for anyone in Tarrant or Erath in the last 30 days?�

no answer.

“Can you send it again? When was it sent last?�

Find out it was originally sent on July 10th, then with no response it was, presumably, but there is no record of this, sent again on August 10th and again on September 10th.

“Again, how are you contacting them? Could you have the wrong fax numbers? Can you call them now and verify their info?�

“We send it electronically.�

“Are you sending a fax?�

“No, it’s electronic.�

“A fax is electronic, ma’am.�

“No it isn’t!�

sigh. “Yes it is, ma’am. A fax scans your analog document, translates it into digital form, sends that out over the phone lines to a receiving fax which then recreates the analog document from the digital info sent. It is electronic. Are you sending a fax to the wrong number?�

“No, we do it electronically!�

“Ok….like email maybe? Are you emailing them?�

“Something like that.� (all smug and condesending)(hey, _I_ should be able to recognize that in others, I _did_ do tech support for several years :) )

“Something like what? How are y’all contacting them?�

“…sendmail.� (this was very faint, almost a wisper. no idea why)

“Oh, y’all use the sendmail program? Cool, just send it again, please. Maybe have your system admin look at it, maybe the address is wrong for Tarant and Erath? Or it could be bouncing, or your or their mailbox could be full? You know your phone system mailbox is full, right?�

“It. is. done. elec-tronically! Not like that!�

“ok…Where do we go from here? How do we get this fixed?�

“Who did you contact at TCSO and ECSO?�

Gave her their names, FriendlyLawEnforcementLady#1 and FriendlyLawEnforcementLady#2, and their fax numbers. Asked why she needed that info if they didn’t “deal with� the sheriffs office and didn’t fax stuff? "Judy" had no answer to that.

Then she took my phone number (which was on the packet of info I had to send them!) and swore to call me back, that day, the 25th, by 5pm, as soon as she figured out what the problem was.

I asked if she could call the people she deals with at Tarrant and Erath personally and get this taken care of (here she kept just saying Tarrant County and Erath County, never mentioning Sheriff’s Office, but who else _could_ she be talking about?). She re-itterated that I _was not_ to call Tarrant or Erath anymore, and it would be taken care of within the 60 days.

“What? 60 days! It's been...months and months!�

“Yes, it’s not been 60 days since July 10th. You can’t count weekends, sir!�

“…�

“You can’t count weekends!!!!!!� she said several times. After thinking on it a bit, I assume she meant that 60 business (non weekend) days from July 10th was when stuff had to be done, and until then, I am

I got the feeling nothing would be done until Septermber 29th, when it will have been 60 business days. Unless Labor Day does not count, then I guess it'd be October 2nd. Of course, I always think it is funny that a law enforcement agency is talking about business days when they are open 24/7, seven days a week. Yes, I know the CHL office down in Austiin isn't, but the Tarrant County and Erath County Sheriffs offices have people on duty all day and night. But I digress...

I called again from 4pm to 5pm and was never able to get through. I called again all day today, and was never able to get to a real person, after several minutes I'd be transfered to 7293's mailbox and it would be full so I'd be disconnected.

I am veryvery

DPS has treated me like . Like.

Erath County and Tarrant County Sheriffs departments were both very very polite and cordial and helpful. Everything that they should’ve been. DPS was just the opposite.

Again, sorry about the ranting.



Does anyone here know what the DPS is sending to the counties? What is it that the counties can look up that the DPS in Austin can not? If I'm stopped for speeding anywhere in the state, the officer can look up my license number and see any outstanding warrants or criminal history (not that I have either, of course), so what is it that they are looking for here?

Do we know if they are faxing the info, whatever it is, back and forth?

Or are they mailing it?

Does anyone know for sure who the DPS contacts in Tarrant or Erath county? Is it the Sheriffs office? Or some other county agency?

Is there a supervisor's number I can call to complain about my treatment by the CHL people? Will it do any good?

Is my treatment by the DPS CHL people the norm?

thanks,

-mike

[carlson1]

Mike good to have you on the Forum. There are many experts on here that can help you and I will leave it to them. I am sorry to hear what happened to you. That is the first horror story like this I have heard.

[KD5NRH]

Well, next time you drive by Peacock's or Castillo's and see every law enforcement vehicle in the county there, stop by the SO, and ask the dispatcher how that stuff gets handled. They get bored when everybody else gets to go to lunch and they have to sit and watch a phone.

I used to drop in to the SOs in Erath, Comanche, and Brown counties every now and then to look at their big dispatch map and take advantage of the dispatcher's knowledge of where such-and-such county road or named road out in the county would be and what would be the fastest way to get there. Having a scanner, and timing my visit for when call volume was light to nonexistent made for some pleasant chats - and a lot less gas wasted looking for an address.

[Kalrog]

I had a long wait, but NOTHING like that. I did get the run around somewhat, but ... just dang.

[Diode]

Welcome to the Fourms, hang in there it's bound to get better soon!.

[gandalf23]

Well, I just managed to get through to a "Tracy" at DPS down in Austin. No last name, she said they are not allowed to give thier last names.

Ask about my application, she said they are still waiting on the field investigation. And that my "60 days" started on 8/18.

This is new. JaneDoe#3 and "Judy" on Monday said that the 60 days started either on June 19th when they received my packet ( a month or more after it wa ssent out, but whatever) or July 10th when they sent out the stuff to the two counties.

I asked Tracy to double check that they showed that they received my packet on August 18th, 2006, and not June 19th, 2006. She said she did.

So...did one of the ladies I spoke to Monday fiddle with the dates? Or is Tracy looking at something else? Either way, someone is fibbing to me.

Also, according to Tracy, the field investigation is handled by the DPS in Tarrant and Erath county and "there is absolutely no one you can call about that."

Which really really makes me want to call the local DPS and see what they say. :)

Will keep y'all updated.

1:30pm 9-27-06
Called the DPS in Erath, 965-7893, and left a message, figured I'd wait to hear from them till I call Tarrant or back down to Austin.

What's kinda funny is that they've had the paperwork long enough that it's now been longer than 5 years since I lived in Erath County.

[Diode]

Well, I just managed to get through to a "Tracy" at DPS down in Austin. No last name, she said they are not allowed to give thier last names.

Ask about my application, she said they are still waiting on the field investigation. And that my "60 days" started on 8/18.

This is new. JaneDoe#3 and "Judy" on Monday said that the 60 days started either on June 19th when they received my packet ( a month or more after it wa ssent out, but whatever) or July 10th when they sent out the stuff to the two counties.

I asked Tracy to double check that they showed that they received my packet on August 18th, 2006, and not June 19th, 2006. She said she did.

So...did one of the ladies I spoke to Monday fiddle with the dates? Or is Tracy looking at something else? Either way, someone is fibbing to me.

Also, according to Tracy, the field investigation is handled by the DPS in Tarrant and Erath county and "there is absolutely no one you can call about that."

Which really really makes me want to call the local DPS and see what they say. :)

Will keep y'all updated.

You'll have an ulcer at this rate. Looks like they know you have been waiting a while. They should get it moving now.

[gandalf23]

Well a very nice lady from the Erath DPS called just now and said she'd looked, and there was no record, going back three or four months, that the DPS in Austin had sent anything to them about me.

The officer who handles the field investigations there is Cpl. B-something.When Cpl. B~~~ gets back into the office, she's left a message for him to contact Austin and see what's going on, and to contact me and let me know.

Maybe now it'll get straightened out, whatever the problem was.

Oh, and KD5NRH,

When I delivered for the pizza hut there in Stephenville, from time to time I'd stop in at the PD to ask how to get to somewhere, especially when I was first starting out. :)


2:43pm 9-27-06
Get a call from Cpl. Kenneth Bratton, with the DPS in Stephenville.

He said the info arrived to him two days ago, which would’ve been Monday, after I’d called down and talked to the anonymous ladies in Austin.

Cpl. Bratton said he didn’t see any problems, give it another two, three days to check in with the agencies down there, and he’d send it back to Waco, then from Waco it goes to Austin. From there he said he had no idea how long it would take them to actually process it.

[fadlan12]

I have been dealing with a particular lady on my "case" since early sept. She has been very polite and helpfull but the hold up has been Travis and Williamson counties. She mentioned the electronic transmission of info. She took my # down after several weeks of her asking me to call her back for updates. Austin got my info late July so its been only 60 days for me. I was expecting to get it by Halloween.

[Commander]

gandalf23 wrote

Basically No one would give me their name or the name of the person supposedly working on my application. I believe this violates the law, as they are state employees and are supposed to tell me their name if I ask.

If does violate DPS Policy, so if you speak to one again and they won't give you their name remind them that DPS General Manual Section 05.06.01 states "Any member of the Department of Public Safety, except when on an undercover assignment, shall when called upon to do so by any person under any circumstances give his name, address and identification number (if assigned a number) in a courteous manner."

The only problem here is that a lot of those in Austin have never seen or heard of the General Manual.

[gandalf23]

Slight digression, but is the DPS General Manual available to the public? I didn't see it on their website.

[Commander]

No, it's not generally available. You could probably get one with an open records request.

[fadlan12]

I called this afternoon and my caseworker said that she had talked to the officer thats returns the background checks to austin. He is very backed up and was sending out several "large batches" this week. Of course mine was not in the first batch.

[gandalf23]

Today, October 10th, 2006, I received my CHL in the mail.

Tommorrow a letter is going out to my state rep Charlie Geren, and to the DPS internal affairs.

[carlson1]

Today, October 10th, 2006, I received my CHL in the mail.

Tommorrow a letter is going out to my state rep Charlie Geren, and to the DPS internal affairs.

Congratulations - Finally! Keep us up to date on what you hear back.