Penalty Question about Empty Mags

[TEX]

Am I right in thinking that any magazine left behind that has no ammunition in it, does not generate a penalty - even if it is dropped from a gun that is not at slide lock. It may be a fine point but I saw an argument develop over it and looks like the IDPA rule book only indicates it cannot have any ammunition in it. Meaning (I think) that if you count your rounds well enough, you can drop the empty mag with a round still in the chamber and be compliant. What say ye?

[Beiruty]

in IPSC and some Defensive shooting clubs it does not matter.

[Jeremae]

Unless the gun is empty (at slide lock) the magazine, even if it is empty, must be retained unless you removed it from the gun to clear a malfunction.

See appendix 2 in the rule book.

[solaritx]

Simple way to remember (In IDPA)- the ONLY time you can drop a magazine is when your gun is empty (slide locked back or not) and clearing a malfunction. Otherwise, even if the mag is empty you have to retain it.

Put a new mag in, rack the slide and a round comes out.... it's a PE (3 seconds)

Garry N

[jason237m]

+1 what Garry said.

Empty gun or malfunction are only allowable reasons to drop mag.

[TEX]

Thanks Guys. So a simple way to remember is if it an't lock back it ain't really empty.

[solaritx]

(Thanks Guys. So a simple way to remember is if it an't lock back it ain't really empty.)

Nope, sorry....the gun can be empty either with slide locked back or not and shooter is allowed to drop mag. Bottom line gun has to be empty.

Locked back and you know the gun is empty, drop mag and reload. Not locked back (think to self "was that 5 shots or six..now in all the confusion, I can't really remember either....well do you feel lucky punk, NOW DO YOU") and pray while doing reload that no round comes out when I rack the slide. If no round comes out I counted right and no PE. If round comes out, I goofed and it's a PE even though I racked the slide. One way to not get the PE would be rack the slide, see that there was still a round and pick up mag and stow before firing next shot.....but that would take more time than the 3 second PE. Either way, shooter loses.

Garry

[AggieMM]

+1 to the above, firearm must be empty before you can leave the magazine on the ground.

However, one minor point of clarification, if you are clearing a malfunction (App 2), you are allowed to leave the "bad" mag on the ground, regardless of state of the magazine and/or firearm.

Ryan

[OldCannon]

This entire conversation reminds me again why I think the IDPA has become an amusing inverse of its intended purpose.

[solaritx]

I am glad we can amuse you, IKD.

In this time of unemployment, govenment intervention in all aspects of our lives, 10 year rememberance of a unprovoked attack and the murder of 3000 Americans, a downward spiral of our culture and American Standards......we all need some amusement. If a discussion of the rules of a game (and all games have them) make you chuckle, laugh, fall on the floor and wet your pants or just bring a smile to your face then some good has come into the world (and I am glad to have assisted). With the amusement you find, one must also remember....we pick and choose the games we wish to play. I personally find some of our past-time althletic events silly, but I do not look down on those that find them entertaining and give them pleasure. Suggest others do the same.

Garry N