Does anyone compete with a carry gun

[Big Ben]

I have been shooting IDPA for several months now and I am shooting my first regional match with WHIDPA at their Labor Day match and I use my Glock 19 everytime I shoot. I am thinking of getting either a 17 or 34 just because most of the more experienced shooters tell me there is a clear advantage in accuracy over the smaller "carry models".

[Texas Dan Mosby]

Yes.

I compete with a full size 1911, and I carry a full size 1911.

[propellerhead]

I shoot my carry gun once in a while at IDPA matches.

[Jeremae]

I compete with the same full size Kimber 5" 1911 that I carry every day all day.

I see many shooters using carry guns (compact frame light weight short barrel), not sure how many as a percentage but it is common.

It is one of the great advantages of IDPA, if you want to play high speed low drag games you can, and if you want to use your everyday carry equipment in an artificially stressful situation to test your gun handling you can do that too.

[Rye956]

I have my friends use their carry for IDPA. IMHO i think it's good. It familiarizes you with the gun that you carry and helps you shoot accurately and fast.

[CWOOD]

Sorry to be so late to the discussion...been out of pocket for several weeks.

Well it is not tiny or single stack, but YES, I use my carry handgun in IDPA...ALL THE TIME.

I carry a Glock 30 (10+1 .45ACP). I have been shooting IDPA for over six years(wow, had not calculated it before) and have always used my G30. In fact, my whole reason for starting IDPA was to get better with the pistol after I started carrying it after I had had my CHL for a while. It has helped tremendously in honing skills which might be useful in a self defense situation. SAFETY has been one of the greatest lessons, however such things as drawing from concealment, shooting/reloading on the move, failure drills, target selection/acquisition,use of cover cannot be easily practiced in most other practice situations. Additionally you have the "pressure" of a clock and an audience.

If your only goal is to excel at the "game", which is fine, you will find other choices more suitable. My goal is to excell at MY game and still do OK in THE game.

Probably the reason I have stayed with IDPA so long is that it is also a lot of fun. Good game and lots of nice folks.

[LTUME1978]

Yes, I shoot with my carry guns (both compact and full size M&P 45's). I have only shot 3 1/2 IDPA matches and do this for practice/training for concealed carry, not for competition's sake. I have talked with folks at the matches that are shooting the long slide 9mm's (some with the modified pistols, i.e. enlarged grip/magazine opening) that are also using kydex OWB holsters that one would not use in concealed carry on the street. They do this for speed and the game. I asked what they carry on the street and the answer has been a 45 from most. I have asked if they thought that they could make the transition (in a real life adventure) to the 45 after having shot the 9 for so long. They said yes.

So, I bought a M&P 9 Pro to see for myself. There is a big difference in recoil/recovery. I don't think these folks would like what they would expericence if they had to use their 45 in a real life adventure unless they get in a lot of extra practice with their 45 outside of matches. Could I carry the 9 Pro? Yes, with the right holster. Would I? Doubtful. I like the extra punch that a 45 gives. The comments from some of these 9 shooters at the last match tell it all when we were checking targets/pasting holes (Man, that 45 sure makes a BIG hole compared to a 9). If I were writing the rules for IDPA (non gaming rules), I would require the 9 shooters to make at least twice as many hits as someone shooting a 45. And yes, I would let them have their high capacity magazines as they would have them in the real world and may very well need them.

Please note that I understand that there are people that are recoil sensitive and must shoot a 9. However, there is a difference in performance that can't be neglected.

[The Annoyed Man]

Saturday a week ago, my son competed in the Personal Protection match at Dallas Pistol Club using a Kimber Pro Raptor. He will be turning 21 in early January and plans to get his CHL right off, and he plans to carry that Kimber.

[gringop]

. The comments from some of these 9 shooters at the last match tell it all when we were checking targets/pasting holes (Man, that 45 sure makes a BIG hole compared to a 9). If I were writing the rules for IDPA (non gaming rules), I would require the 9 shooters to make at least twice as many hits as someone shooting a 45. And yes, I would let them have their high capacity magazines as they would have them in the real world and may very well need them.

Please note that I understand that there are people that are recoil sensitive and must shoot a 9. However, there is a difference in performance that can't be neglected.

Can you tell us exactly what that difference in performance is? Is it a difference in penetration, expansion, fragmentation or defeating barriers? Or is it just various comments on holes on cardboard targets. Objective, scientific testing shows modern 9mm self defense ammo to measure up to the same FBI requirements as 45ACP.

For 13 years, I have carried and competed with pistols in 45 Colt, 45 ACP, 40 S+W and 9mm. I have a pretty good idea of the strengths and weaknesses of those cartridges. I currently compete with my carry Glock 19 in my carry leather IWB holster. I'm classified as a SSP master with it.

IMHO, with modern ammo, caliber (9mm or larger )does not matter. Kydex holsters and longslide competition guns don't matter. What does matter is mindset, motivation and training. Everything else gives only tiny increments of improvement.

Gringop

[jbirds1210]

Those who practice, win. Doesn't matter if they are shooting powder puff loads from the 5 inch super gun of the month or full power loads out of a short barrel Llama. I have seen it happen too many times.

Jason

[LTUME1978]

Jason,

I agree that practice makes a difference. However, all other things being equal, the same person shooting a long slide 9 out of a kydex holster (where the belt does not go over the outside of the holster to help retain the pistol) will be able to draw and shoot repetitive shots faster than someone carrying a 45 in an inside the waistband holster. Someone with a huge magazine opening added to their pistol (which they would not carry on the street) also has an additional advantage on the range.

My understanding is that IDPA is intended as a "training" competition for concealed carry and that it came about because other shooting sports became equipment races. It would seem only reasonable to compete with the gear we carry in IDPA. Those that shoot a "game gun/holster" most of the time then go to something much different for concealed carry are putting themselves at a distinct disadvantage off the range (my opinion).

Gringop,

I have seen a lot of data as well. I also have several friends that are current/retired law enforcement (some are HPD SWAT). Unanimously, their choice is to carry the 45 ACP and my discussions with them led me to go with the 45 as well. We each make our own decisions based on the information we have at the time. I may change my mind at some point in the future but my current position is based on what I have read and information from people who are well informed and "have a big dog in the fight".

I congratulate you on making master class, I know how much work that takes.

I agree with your comment that mindset, motivation and training matter. I have learned that from personal experience and the training classes I have taken in the short time I have been in this shooting sport. I have also learned that consistency in what we do is extremely important and how training one way but living another can have a negative consequence. Those inconsistencies can result in tiny to not so tiny changes in performance off the range.

I plan to keep my 9 and will probably shoot it in a USPSA match and may even try it in an IDPA match. However, I will shoot it much less frequently than my 45. My main reason to purchase it was to get my younger daughters to step up from the 22 rimfire pistols. They watched me shoot the 45 and did not want to shoot it. I was able to talk them into taking the step to a 9 but still hope to get them to the 45 someday.

These opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect that of this station or their management. :-)

[drjoker]

I compete with a Glock 19. It is my carry gun. Granted I don't always carry, but when I do in the winter, it's the Glock. I also use full power ammo. I also show up with all my other normal carry gear; leather belt, leather holster with safety retention clip, etc. I don't understand all these guys who use special non-carry guns and gear because isn't the purpose of competing and practicing to become a more effective shot if you should ever need to draw and shoot?

IMHO, unless you are top level competitor, the equipment won't make a difference in your performance as much as more practice (up to a certain point. I tried competing with a smartcarry and... let's just say I don't recommend it, but a normal owb leather holster with safety retention clip should be fine. a safety clip or thumb break only takes less than a fraction of a second more to draw.)

[Hoosier Daddy]

I compete with a Glock 19. It is my carry gun. Granted I don't always carry, but when I do in the winter, it's the Glock. I also use full power ammo. I also show up with all my other normal carry gear; leather belt, leather holster with safety retention clip, etc. I don't understand all these guys who use special non-carry guns and gear because isn't the purpose of competing and practicing to become a more effective shot if you should ever need to draw and shoot?

For some people it is. Other people compete because they enjoy the sport and/or enjoy competition for its own sake. Watch a marathon or even a fun run and you won't see them wearing the same clothes and shoes they would be normally wearing, if they need to run for their life.

ISPC started as a competition for practical defensive shooting. It has become dominated by gamesmen.

IDPA started as a competition for practical defensive shooting, partially in response to IPSC becoming dominated by gamesmen. However, it has strayed from its roots. Some of the IDPA rules have practical origins but have been codified so much that they have lost sight of the original intent. Other premises run counter to reality, such as having five divisions, when there's no such thing on the street in a real defensive shooting. The bad guys aren't going to give you a break because you're carrying a less capable gun.

Also, good arguments have been made that a defensive shooting competition should be pass fail. You either survive the encounter or you don't.