An embarrassingly basic question

[DParker]

I assume that this must have been covered here before (many times, I would think), but thus far I've been unable to hobble together the magic combination of search terms that yields any of the aforementioned assumed discussions. Furthermore, I would think that this would have been covered in my CHL class, but I don't recall that happening. (Then again, maybe I'm just getting old faster than I thought.) As such, I apologize in advance for asking what I'm sure must be a redundant question with regard to the following basic scanario:

You're lawfully wielding a firearm (handgun or long gun, CHL or simply on your own property) and you have occasion to employ said weapon to detain or otherwise hold at bay some bad guy who was committing some offense against you. The police are contacted (how is not important here) and they eventually arrive on the scene, where you are standing with your firearm pointed at the BG. Obviously you will need to stop pointing your weapon at the BG, lest you be potentially mistaken as the perp, not to mention the fact that you really want to avoid inducing the tension a LEO experiences when dealing with anyone who has a gun drawn. So the question is...how exactly do you go about defusing this situation?

Simply lowering your weapon is not good enough, nor is holstering your handgun (if carrying one). Either of these approaches leaves you with the ability to rapidly re-employ the firearm, which is not going to make the LEO(s) on the scene much more comfortable. So what to do, then? Setting your gun on the ground (slowly and carefully, of course) doesn't seem to be a good answer either, as it leaves you at least somewhat vulnerable to a stupid move on the BG's part, like rushing you, knocking you back and taking the weapon. Bad juju, that.

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

[TDDude]

Make sure the police know you are the home owner. I would simply shout it out. "I LIVE HERE, I LIVE HERE" should probably do it. Body language of the both of you should also tell the officer who is who. Have whoever calls the police tell them that an armed CHL holder is on the premises and have them describe what you are wearing, what you look like etc.

Other than that, I'm not sure I would be in the "Holding Them At Bay" business if someone is in my home; especially since the Castle doctrine was passed. If I pull a gun and they challenge me, it's over. If they freeze, then I'm looking for his buddy and if I see one and he's moving, it's over. If they were scrambling to get out, I'm fairly certain I would let them go and make sure I get a good look at the car or which way they headed out. I'm not going to shoot someone in the back as they are running away.

But then again, I pray I never have to take another life or ever have to be in that situation.

[DParker]

Make sure the police know you are the home owner. I would simply shout it out. "I LIVE HERE, I LIVE HERE" should probably do it. Body language of the both of you should also tell the officer who is who. Have whoever calls the police tell them that an armed CHL holder is on the premises and have them describe what you are wearing, what you look like etc.

That's all well and good, but none of that is going to leave the newly-arrived LEO(s) certain as to who's who. So I'm still under the assumption that they're going to want neither of us to be holding a gun as they take control of the situation.

Other than that, I'm not sure I would be in the "Holding Them At Bay" business if someone is in my home; especially since the Castle doctrine was passed. If I pull a gun and they challenge me, it's over. If they freeze, then I'm looking for his buddy and if I see one and he's moving, it's over. If they were scrambling to get out, I'm fairly certain I would let them go and make sure I get a good look at the car or which way they headed out. I'm not going to shoot someone in the back as they are running away.

The scenario I propose did not assume that the BG was IN your home. Merely either on your property or in some other situation that makes your possession and use of the firearm legal. It *did* assume, however, that things have played out in such a way that the BG did not challenge you once your weapon was brought to bear (leaving you with no reason to shoot), nor did he try to flee the scene.

But then again, I pray I never have to take another life or ever have to be in that situation.

Of course. I think we're all (or at least the overwhelming majority of us) of a similar mind there.

[WildBill]

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Keep your hands in plain sight and do exactly what the LEO tells you to do.

[DParker]

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Do exactly what the LEO tells you to do.

LOL! Yeah, I'd definitely be doing that. I guess what I'm looking for is something a little more proactive for the purpose of making the LEO a bit more at-ease to begin with. But perhaps that's not really feasible in this scenario.

[WildBill]

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Do exactly what the LEO tells you to do.

LOL! Yeah, I'd definitely be doing that. I guess what I'm looking for is something a little more proactive for the purpose of making the LEO a bit more at-ease to begin with. But perhaps that's not really feasible in this scenario.

I am not a lawyer or a cop, but my advice is:

If you can safely put down your gun before they arrive then do so. If that is not feasible, let them control the situation and do exactly what they tell you to do. Don't try to explain anything until they have the situation under control and they ask you.

If you want to be proactive, keep you finger off the trigger and don't point the muzzle at them.

[TxD]

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Show 'em your CHL badge.

Just a little late afternoon levity.

[DParker]

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Show 'em your CHL badge.

I keep that right next to my Official Mall Ninja Card

[Wildscar]

So what's the standard recommended course of action here?

Do exactly what the LEO tells you to do.

LOL! Yeah, I'd definitely be doing that. I guess what I'm looking for is something a little more proactive for the purpose of making the LEO a bit more at-ease to begin with. But perhaps that's not really feasible in this scenario.

There are firearms involved. There is no makeing them feel at ease till its all said and done. I would do exactly as they say nothing more, nothing less. And above all NO sudden movements.

[TDDude]

That's all well and good, but none of that is going to leave the newly-arrived LEO(s) certain as to who's who. So I'm still under the assumption that they're going to want neither of us to be holding a gun as they take control of the situation.

You are probably right. Of course, doing what an LE tells you is a given. Keeping your finger off the trigger, complying with any commands but I disagree in not telling them that you are on your own property or that you belonged there or you, or your friend are the one who called. If you keep your finger off the trigger and then point it away when they arrive it would probably go a long way to showing who is the good guy and who isn't. So what if you both get cuffed. It will eventually work out and chances are the guy you are holding has a sheet.

The scenario I propose did not assume that the BG was IN your home. Merely either on your property or in some other situation that makes your possession and use of the firearm legal. It *did* assume, however, that things have played out in such a way that the BG did not challenge you once your weapon was brought to bear (leaving you with no reason to shoot), nor did he try to flee the scene.

I don't see this happening in this day and age. Even if the guy is not armed, I don't see them giving up and just waiting around for the police to haul them off. Plus, I'm not all that interested in holding him until the police get there (15 minutes or so??) and I am sure not interested in cornering him so he feels he has to do something desperate that causes things to escalate (using your scenario of the confrontation being over). I really don't think a BG is gonna stick around if they can run off. If the threat is gone, so is your protection against using deadly force.

I guess I missed that point in your post. I assumed you meant that they were in your house and things were still hinky.

There really is no easy answer. In my case I simply include a prayer to God for wisdom in all the challenges that I am faced with.

This is just what I would hope I could do. In reality, I'll probably just pee down my leg and roll up into a small ball until they take all my stuff and leave. NOT

[WildBill]

I was not trying to be flip with my answer. Put yourself in the position of an LEO responding to "shots fired." When he arrives at the scene, he doesn't know what is going on. He doesn't need distractions with somebody saying "he's the BG" or "it's my house" or "I have a CHL." He needs to get the situation under control so that nobody [including himself] is in any further danger. If that means disarming and handcuffing everyone at the scene, so be it. You will get your chance to answer questions. Just wait your turn.

He can't do his job if there are people moving around or many conversations going on at once. That is why I am saying not to do say or do anything until asked by the LEO. In the personal protection classes that I have taken they stress that you should not engage in any conversations with the BG. The police are taught the same thing. Except that until they can gather some facts they don't know which one is the bad guy.

Do you think that an LEO is going to believe you just because you say "I live here and have a CHL?" Bad guys are known to lie to get out of bad situations. Do you think that they haven't tried to convince the police that they are the good guy? Once things settle down and you answer some questions and show them some ID, they will get things figured out.

As Wildscar said

There are firearms involved. There is no making them feel at ease till its all said and done. I would do exactly as they say nothing more, nothing less. And above all NO sudden movements.

[Mike1951]

Personally, when the officer arrives, I'm gonna be putting my handgun on the ground, car, whatever is close and putting a step or two between myself and the gun.

Not necessarily gently either. If it has to be dropped, it will be dropped.

By the time he exits his vehicle, I will be unarmed with my hands in the air.

At that point, speak when spoken to.

[Wildscar]

Personally, when the officer arrives, I'm gonna be putting my handgun on the ground, car, whatever is close and putting a step or two between myself and the gun.

Not necessarily gently either. If it has to be dropped, it will be dropped.

By the time he exits his vehicle, I will be unarmed with my hands in the air.

At that point, speak when spoken to.

But what are you going to do when the BG decides he faster than everyone and go after the gun you just dropped and stepped away from? That could also give the BG that time he needs to pull hidden weapon you did not see. That would make it more complicated in my opinion.

[Armed-Texan]

i was running a question like that through my head at the shrimporee in aransas pass this weekend. what if i were forced to use my handgun in self defense. there were LEOs everywhere. what if i fired and there was an officer just a few feet away, would he see me as the assailant and shoot me? how would i let them know i was defending myself before they fired on me, because i would obviously have my gun trained on the BG. thankfully there was a great LEO presence there and no violence that i am aware of, they did a great job patrolling. i'm sure they will love the OT checks they get, but hey, safety is priceless.

[Liko81]

That's all well and good, but none of that is going to leave the newly-arrived LEO(s) certain as to who's who. So I'm still under the assumption that they're going to want neither of us to be holding a gun as they take control of the situation.

You're exactly right, but that's why they're police officers; they train regularly in "shoot/don't shoot" situations. The LEO can never be certain of anything; that's why cops will say ordinary everyday traffic stops are the most dangerous thing a cop does. However, knowing that the homeowner is armed and holding the BG at bay leads the LEO to expect that situation when he shows up.

Having encountered this situation, the officer will draw and order the BG to the ground. If at that point you are still holding your weapon, the officer will ask you to lower it. He'll cuff the BG, then ask for your weapon. He's just controlling the scene. If you haven't done anything threatening to him or the BG, you may be left uncuffed, but it's possible that the officer will cuff you as well until the whole thing is sorted out.

The scenario I propose did not assume that the BG was IN your home. Merely either on your property or in some other situation that makes your possession and use of the firearm legal. It *did* assume, however, that things have played out in such a way that the BG did not challenge you once your weapon was brought to bear (leaving you with no reason to shoot), nor did he try to flee the scene.

Legally speaking, drawing on a BG is use of force. Firing is of course use of deadly force. However, from a practical standpoint, if you are afraid for your life or safety, those of someone close to you, or of your possessions, draw and fire. Drawing on an invading BG by itself isn't always a deterrent, and by the time you figure out it isn't you could be dead.

Of course. I think we're all (or at least the overwhelming majority of us) of a similar mind there.