Employee Handbook

[JAGER77]

I just find the wording of our employee handbook a little confusing. They are contradicting themselves and maybe that's what they want to do. I don't know. There are no 30.06 or any other signs on our building. I left out some irrelevent paragraphs. The kicker is the "regarldless of law vs. unless allowable under state law" in bold below. I signed the handbook, but what did I really sign?

"The laws governing the carrying and possession of a weapon or firearm vary from state to state. For safety reasons, it is ****Policy to prohibit the possession of a weapon or firearm on a person on **** property regardless of local, state, or federal laws which may permit such possession.

B. Firearms and/or any other weapons are expressly forbidden on company premises, unless otherwise allowable under state law.
1. While some states allow concealed weapons to be brought to the workplace provided they are kept in the employee’s personal locked vehicle and provided the employee is licensed by the state to carry a concealed weapon, the law does not provide the right to carry or conceal firearms on the company premises.

C. The Company requests that all employees consider the advisability of the practice of having firearms within their vehicle, and requests that you refrain from bringing firearms to the workplace.
1. Under no circumstances are firearms to be removed from the employee’s vehicle while the vehicle is on the company premises, or to be brought into any store location building, within company owned vehicles or equipment, or to work locations away from the primary location where the employee works.
2. An example of a secondary location would be a customer’s property.

D. Firearms are allowable in a limited number of states within a locked vehicle.
1. However, the employee will be subject to disciplinary action to include immediate termination of employment if the firearm is not in the employee’s vehicle and is brought outside of their vehicle at any location that is part of the company premises. "

[VMI77]

I just find the wording of our employee handbook a little confusing. They are contradicting themselves and maybe that's what they want to do. I don't know. There are no 30.06 or any other signs on our building. I left out some irrelevent paragraphs. The kicker is the "regarldless of law vs. unless allowable under state law" in bold below. I signed the handbook, but what did I really sign?

"The laws governing the carrying and possession of a weapon or firearm vary from state to state. For safety reasons, it is ****Policy to prohibit the possession of a weapon or firearm on a person on **** property regardless of local, state, or federal laws which may permit such possession.

B. Firearms and/or any other weapons are expressly forbidden on company premises, unless otherwise allowable under state law.
1. While some states allow concealed weapons to be brought to the workplace provided they are kept in the employee’s personal locked vehicle and provided the employee is licensed by the state to carry a concealed weapon, the law does not provide the right to carry or conceal firearms on the company premises.

C. The Company requests that all employees consider the advisability of the practice of having firearms within their vehicle, and requests that you refrain from bringing firearms to the workplace.
1. Under no circumstances are firearms to be removed from the employee’s vehicle while the vehicle is on the company premises, or to be brought into any store location building, within company owned vehicles or equipment, or to work locations away from the primary location where the employee works.
2. An example of a secondary location would be a customer’s property.

D. Firearms are allowable in a limited number of states within a locked vehicle.
1. However, the employee will be subject to disciplinary action to include immediate termination of employment if the firearm is not in the employee’s vehicle and is brought outside of their vehicle at any location that is part of the company premises. "

I think they're just saying that they can't prevent you from having a gun in your vehicle due to the parking lot law, but they prefer you don't have a gun in your vehicle, and if you do, it must stay in your vehicle as long as your vehicle is on company property. They are distinguishing between the place on company property where your vehicle is parked and the company premises ....in other words, the areas on company property where your employment is performed.

[RPB]

So there is no proper 30.06 language in the policy manual ...

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun";

and no 30.06 signs posted.

or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.30.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So there's no law against carrying there, unless and until you get Oral notice, at which time you can't carry there any more ... so it isn't illegal

They of course, could fire you for any reason or no reason at all in Texas, but carry there is not illegal.
Concealed is concealed .... shhhh

[JAGER77]

So there is no proper 30.06 language in the policy manual and no 30.06 signs posted.

Negative. I'll ask HR about it tomorrow. I don't know if since I signed an agreement, if that makes the sign unnecessary. Even if so, I still don't think the wording is clear.

[RPB]

So there is no proper 30.06 language in the policy manual and no 30.06 signs posted.

Negative. I'll ask HR about it tomorrow. I don't know if since I signed an agreement, if that makes the sign unnecessary. Even if so, I still don't think the wording is clear.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
They of course, could fire you for any reason or no reason at all in Texas, but carry there is not illegal.
Concealed is concealed .... shhhh

Concealed is concealed
mouth closed ...

It is not illegal if no 30.06 notice was given

[JAGER77]

LOL, if it's concealed, who would know, right?

[Teamless]

. I'll ask HR about it tomorrow.

Do not ask HR, as once they say anything like "no you cant carry" then if caught, you are trespassing and subject to arrest (and firing)

If you do not ask HR and are caught, then the most is you can get fired.

Their policy says to me "if you carry, you are breaking policy and can be fired" But their policy does not make it illegal to carry there.

[RPB]

. I'll ask HR about it tomorrow.

Do not ask HR, as once they say anything like "no you cant carry" then if caught, you are trespassing and subject to arrest (and firing)

If you do not ask HR and are caught, then the most is you can get fired.

Their policy says to me "if you carry, you are breaking policy and can be fired" But their policy does not make it illegal to carry there.

This

[JAGER77]

Makes sense. Their policy can't get me arrested, just fired. Thanks guys! I just needed a different view on it other than my own to see it clearly.

[RPB]

Makes sense. Their policy can't get me arrested, just fired.

Exactly.
Do not discuss things you can legally keep concealed in your pants which would be a crime if you intentionally fail to conceal them with ANYONE....ever.

[WildBill]

. I'll ask HR about it tomorrow.

Do not ask HR, as once they say anything like "no you cant carry" then if caught, you are trespassing and subject to arrest (and firing)

If you do not ask HR and are caught, then the most is you can get fired.

Their policy says to me "if you carry, you are breaking policy and can be fired" But their policy does not make it illegal to carry there.

This

That

[74novaman]

. I'll ask HR about it tomorrow.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This exchange made me chuckle. RPB is right. Concealed is concealed, and like the military until recently: Don't ask, don't tell.

Especially if you're considering carrying at work, don't share that you're a "gun guy" with co workers. They're co workers, they don't need to know your personal business.

If you work in a place where it is legal to carry, you must decide if carrying is worth the risks involved if someone catches you. If your company has a stated no weapons policy or your boss is anti gun, you may be fired if anyone finds out.

I've had a CHL for 3 years and no one has ever noticed that I was carrying on or off work, so that's another thing to consider. I've also carried at jobs with stated generic "no weapons" policies in the handbook. Funny though, no one whines when you pull out a pocket knife to open a package or cut something for them about it being a weapon. .

In the end, you have to decide if you are confident enough in your ability to conceal and okay with the possibility of losing your job if discovered and do what is best for you personally.

I've made that decision both directions, depending on the job and the safety of the location I was working.

[The Annoyed Man]

LOL, if it's concealed, who would know, right?

NOOOOOOO! KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. DO NOT EMPOWER YOUR EMPLOYER BY HELPING THEM TO KNOW ABOUT 30.06!!!!!! YOU NOT ONLY RUIN IT FOR YOU, YOU RUIN IT FOR NON-EMPLOYEE CHL HOLDERS.

[WildBill]

LOL, if it's concealed, who would know, right?

NOOOOOOO! KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. DO NOT EMPOWER YOUR EMPLOYER BY HELPING THEM TO KNOW ABOUT 30.06!!!!!! YOU NOT ONLY RUIN IT FOR YOU, YOU RUIN IT FOR NON-EMPLOYEE CHL HOLDERS.

The only answer that most employers know is no.

[C-dub]

Makes sense. Their policy can't get me arrested, just fired. Thanks guys! I just needed a different view on it other than my own to see it clearly.

And even then it is so convoluted that you may be able to argue that due to the part about "unless otherwise allowable under state law" that you thought they were saying because you have a CHL it was okay. But that's only if you are discovered and they want to fire you or call you in for a meeting.